Looking for a direction

[Son of Butch]

If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

1/2 Holstein will provide plenty of frame and milk, so something short, wide and low, low milk.

 

[Cada22]

If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

1/2 Holstein will provide plenty of frame and milk, so something short, wide and low, low milk.

What breed would I be looking at to accomplish that?

 

[cow pollinater]

If it were me the first priority would be to knock some milk out of the mix to make them a little easier doing.

What is your opinion on the best way to do that?

The right hereford or limousin would be my pick but if you AI you can find a bull from just about any breed that will work.

 

[Son of Butch]

I like traditional black baldy approach.
Sheyenne and Tested A250 are 2 moderate milk calving ease Herefords at Select Sires followed by angus or limo.

 

[Cada22]

I like traditional black baldy approach.
Sheyenne and Tested A250 are 2 moderate milk calving ease Herefords at Select Sires followed by angus or limo.

What milk numbers do we consider moderate?

 

[Son of Butch]

25 or less imo
herefords produce about 20% less milk than angus... so in angus 21 or less

 

[boondocks]

25 or less imo
herefords produce about 20% less milk than angus... so in angus 21 or less

I don't want to derail the thread but wanted to jump and in say thank you for the way you use an objective, data-driven approach. It is very helpful to us newbies. Seriously--thanks! You dive into the numbers in a way that sometimes challenges me but I learn something.

 

[Dave]

Earlier someone mentioned longevity. Back about 2004 I raise some Holstein/Simm cross heifer calves. I figured to breed them to a Angus and keep those heifers. Long story short by 2010 they were all gone and so were their heifers. Not any one single reason that they were gone but collectively they didn't work. And I live in a pretty easy environment for those cattle. I thought it was a good theory but it sure didn't work for me.

If not any one single reason, what were the problems you ran into? I know body condition while raising the calf is one, but what else stood out?

It has been a few years back so I don't remember all of them. Mostly I remember the wrecks. I know one I had to pull a HUGE calf out of her, she never did get up. One that I pulled a calf out of was fine for about 5 weeks and then just dead one day. There were several that didn't breed back. I know the last one I had got lumpy jaw. I think calving and fertility were the biggest issues. The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold."
Guarantee that calf was NOT sired by an Angus. Maybe an Angus cross (Holstein or Simmental). You cannot get body white unless BOTH parents carry the spotting gene. NO registered ANGUS carries the spotting gene - unless theirs something else in his wood pile!!!

 

[kd4au]

What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.

 

[Dave]

"The Holstein in them would show up. I remember one of that second generation who was pure black and bred to an Angus bull had a calf that was marked like and looked like a pure bred Holstein. Took a beating when that calf sold."
Guarantee that calf was NOT sired by an Angus. Maybe an Angus cross (Holstein or Simmental). You cannot get body white unless BOTH parents carry the spotting gene. NO registered ANGUS carries the spotting gene - unless theirs something else in his wood pile!!!

May have been a simm/angus bull. I have run a few of them over the years. Like said it was a few years back. But I sure remember that black and white calf.

 

[Cada22]

What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.

Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

 

[kd4au]

What kind of longevity did you see out of the Angus/Holstein cross?

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.

Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.

 

[Cada22]

Not sure if your post is directed at me since you didn't quote me,but they lasted about 14 years and I have daughter that is 15 off of the brangus crossed back to the angus/Holstein and she should calf in a few weeks.

Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.

We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OK - tell me if I am wrong. But, I thought "ear cattle" were discriminated by the feedlots (lower price) because they don't do as well as non-eared cattle on the feedlots. Living in upstate NY, I do not have any experience with them, so I may have misconception. This person wants to raise the calf for harvesting his own meat. Is it advisable to recommend " ear" cattle?

 

[kd4au]

OK - tell me if I am wrong. But, I thought "ear cattle" were discriminated by the feedlots (lower price) because they don't do as well as non-eared cattle on the feedlots. Living in upstate NY, I do not have any experience with them, so I may have misconception. This person wants to raise the calf for harvesting his own meat. Is it advisable to recommend " ear" cattle?

IMO the Holstein will hurt the meat more than the Brangus. But your right to much ear and the feedlot guy's won't like them, but a little ear say 1/4 or so doesn't hurt them much.

 

[kd4au]

Sounds much more favorable than the experience that Dave had. These are solid stock and I plan to supplement feed after calving so I hope to have some good luck with them.

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.

We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

Me too. But if that's the case I would just go back with straight Angus. I have gone away from the ear more and more the last few years.

 

[Cada22]

What part of the state are you in? The further south the more the brangus would help IMO. A little ear will help them take the heat.

We are in North Alabama. We can handle a little ear locally. Brangus probably wouldn't be too much ear.

Me too. But if that's the case I would just go back with straight Angus. I have gone away from the ear more and more the last few years.

If I can get a donor cow bought right, they may be recips next year with an Angus clean up bull over them

 

[Son of Butch]

DNA testing has shown that offspring will favor one grandparent over the other 3.
ie in a 4 way cross, Angus, Hereford, Charolais, Holstein the resulting gene mix can be something like a random mix of
35% 15% 28% 22% and not the previously thought 25, 25, 25, 25%
Each grandparent also has 4 grandparents, so It all results in making genetic predictions even more perplexing.

 

[farmerjan]

I agree with Son of Butch as I have seen many times that calves will tend to favor on ancestor more than others. Have found that the jersey crosses will favor the jersey genetics for many generations later.....and i am sure some breeds and even sires within the breeds will be prepotent for traits. The dairy breed traits tend to be more predominant in many crosses, sometimes to the detriment of the saleability of the calves.I have some jersey holstein crosses that have angus calves that are all finer boned, slimmer legs etc with the jersey showing more. Have a couple hol ang that show more of the angus after the second generation. The buyers here frown on the dairy crossed calves unless you go to the sales that are for dairy and dairy crossed feeders; those guys are looking for them specifically. But the jersey influences still take a hit.