Longhorn-Angus cross

[Busterz]

You've thrown out the words "cheating" and "deceiving", so could you explain why this is any different than any other cattle breeder using black bulls to get a black hided animal to sell. How is it any different than entire breeds developing a black hided version to take advantage of a market that favors that color?

You said it all with the last half of your last sentence a market that favors color. Throwing a black hide on some animals is deceiving however the feedlot man may be able to collect a premium on the black hide at slaughter. Breeding anything to a longhorn in order to cheat the buyer will never provide the feedlot owner a premium he will always see a deduction. There in lies the difference. One cattle man who cheats the buyer and the buyer will never get ahead. The other cheats the buyer with color and by doing so may give the buyer a chance to collect a premium on the hide color. If the buyer doesn't collect a premium based on hide color atleast he did not lose money like he did when he was cheated by the longhorn raiser.

So you think breeders of black limousins and black simmentals are cheating their buyers?

 

[Busterz]

i really hate to see cattlemen talking about cheating the order buyer. i know what you mean though and actually what you are talking about is deceiving the order buyer, which amounts to the same thing. i agree that it works though and by not giving these cattle time to express their genetics you have cashed in on something that you shouldn't have been able to cash in on. just because you mask his spots doesn't change him and buyers will end up putting those cattle on an order where he doesn't belong just because the calf looked like he would work in the split second that the buyer had to see him.

selling people something that they mistake for something else is cheating. it isn't only cheating the order buyer either. you have taken money out of the industry from one or more of the downstream players. the order buyer isn't the one that loses money on these cattle that don't perform with the rest of the load. the feeder or grazier lose that money. the order buyer gets his commission regardless. taking money out of the pockets of the feeder and grazier so that you can profit from selling inferior animals is wrong. i don't care how you try to justify it to yourself. these animals eventually express their genetics and the guy left holding them when they express those genetics loses money on them. they become outliers that take money out of a feeder's pocket. that ultimately gives him less money to spend on the next load of cattle. who have you cheated then? i'll answer that question for you. you have cheated the rest of us who try to do the right thing. and that irks me.

I don't know where I got the idea that you were using the words "cheat" and "deceive".

 

[somn]

You've thrown out the words "cheating" and "deceiving", so could you explain why this is any different than any other cattle breeder using black bulls to get a black hided animal to sell. How is it any different than entire breeds developing a black hided version to take advantage of a market that favors that color?

You said it all with the last half of your last sentence a market that favors color. Throwing a black hide on some animals is deceiving however the feedlot man may be able to collect a premium on the black hide at slaughter. Breeding anything to a longhorn in order to cheat the buyer will never provide the feedlot owner a premium he will always see a deduction. There in lies the difference. One cattle man who cheats the buyer and the buyer will never get ahead. The other cheats the buyer with color and by doing so may give the buyer a chance to collect a premium on the hide color. If the buyer doesn't collect a premium based on hide color atleast he did not lose money like he did when he was cheated by the longhorn raiser.

So you think breeders of black limousins and black simmentals are cheating their buyers?

They are trying to pass good cattle off as better ones. Unlike longhorn cross breds they are trying to pass worthless cattle off as good ones. The difference is a premium compared to a dock.

 

[auctionboy]

Anyone who goes to the auction and buys acording to color and can't tell what breed they are buying should get some help, but a pro buyer who can't tell a char from a char/lh needs a new job. I think to bad for them because buyers have been looking at color to much and even more then muscle from time to time and I think they are tricking themselves!

 

[somn]

I don't know where I got the idea that you were using the words "cheat" and "deceive".

I'm with irked on this one people tell us about how they cheat the order buyer and ultimately the feedlot owner and then there is people like you think irked is wrong for calling them out on it. Would I be correct in thinking the reason you ask about longhorn crosses is because you are tired of low payday's and you also hope to cheat the feedlot owner?

 

[1982vett]

Has anyone considered that the order buyer filling the order with the only type animal that can be bought in the price range of the order? :shock: As in you get what you pay for. Just a thought :???:

 

[auctionboy]

I don't know where I got the idea that you were using the words "cheat" and "deceive".

I'm with irked on this one people tell us about how they cheat the order buyer and ultimately the feedlot owner and then there is people like you think irked is wrong for calling them out on it. Would I be correct in thinking the reason you ask about longhorn crosses is because you are tired of low payday's and you also hope to cheat the feedlot owner?

Many people have asked about cross breeding and for the purpose of adding muscle, maybe some hybrid vigor. I think the large buyers can tell the difference and will pay more for a cross then a straight longhorn. How is this cheating anyone? If you can't tell what the breed is buy off the farm and pay more and don't come to the auction. I don't think buyers are always fare to longhorn breeders.

 

[somn]

Auctionboy they themselves said they were cheating the order buyer and ultimately the feedlot owner. Ask them why they consider it cheating. I call it dishonest but we all know you and I disagree on the definition of dishonest. If they want to be honest wait to sell the cattle until the longhorn features are visible or announce at sale time that they are longhorn crosses. If you have never been fooled by a young longhorn calf you haven't seen very many cattle. A good job of crossing will as previously mentioned almost eliminate all sign of the longhorn breed when small. Give them time the boney features shine thru but then it is to late you have already taken your beating.

 

[auctionboy]

Somn- You and me disagree on what being a decent person is and not attacking everyone and trying to prove myself correct and find some small error in someones post to argue about. Anyway after answering your personell attack I would say at the auction buyer beware. I like the auction and I like to gamble. If you don't like to gamble buy straight from the farm. I see nothing wrong with selling lh or lhx at any age. How many LH do you see up there anyway?

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

auctionboy, most times the buyers aren't "fair" to sellers of Pinzgauer calves either, nor are they in the case of painted up Beefmasters (versus solid red or brown Beefy's), or to Herefords in some parts of the country, or to calves that are rat tails, cross-eyed, etc. But I bet the buyers don't loose too much sleep over it, no matter how "irked" the sellers of those calves are. :lol: Maybe every now and then "what goes around comes around"?

 

[auctionboy]

auctionboy, most times the buyers aren't "fair" to sellers of Pinzgauer calves either, nor are they in the case of painted up Beefmasters (versus solid red or brown Beefy's), or to Herefords in some parts of the country, or to calves that are rat tails, cross-eyed, etc. But I bet the buyers don't loose too much sleep over it, no matter how "irked" the sellers of those calves are. :lol: Maybe every now and then "what goes around comes around"?

Well said!

 

[somn]

How many LH do you see up there anyway?

The only longhorns I see up here are Thates over priced Mccombs cattle. I love watching John whine when his pristine cattle don't even bring holstien cow cull prices. Now I have sat thru many of Troy Moores sales if you think you wouldn't be fooled on young longhorn crosses your over confident in your abilities.

 

[somn]

Anyway after answering your personell attack

I never attacked you I said that I felt doing what they do is dishonest. I also wanted to remind you of the fact that you and I disagree on the definition of being dishonest. And that you may feel what they do is honest which you do. Again that goes back to different understandings of the word dishonest.

 

[auctionboy]

How many LH do you see up there anyway?

The only longhorns I see up here are Thates over priced Mccombs cattle. I love watching John whine when his pristine cattle don't even bring holstien cow cull prices. Now I have sat thru many of Troy Moores sales if you think you wouldn't be fooled on young longhorn crosses your over confident in your abilities.

If I was tricked I would take my lump and see it as part of the game, you don't understand, auction is my religion.

 

[somn]

How many LH do you see up there anyway?

The only longhorns I see up here are Thates over priced Mccombs cattle. I love watching John whine when his pristine cattle don't even bring holstien cow cull prices. Now I have sat thru many of Troy Moores sales if you think you wouldn't be fooled on young longhorn crosses your over confident in your abilities.

If I was tricked I would take my lump and see it as part of the game, you don't understand, auction is my religion.

Yeah yeah I know you are the king of all that is auctions