Longhorn cross

[libertygarden]

Black cows, char cows, red cows, rainbow cows, corrientes I don't care if 1) they don't give me headaches like jump the fence, charge me, or get sick 2) they deliver a calf every year. I may just get a couple of corrientes to experiment. I've always had a soft spot for horned cattle.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Black Angus/Char = Smoky
Red Angus/Char = Red Smoky or what we call around here Strawberry
Hereford/Char = Light cream with white face, not as consistent as the Angus crosses.

That's all I've seen.

Homo BLACK means they will pass the black gene to offspring.
BLACK gene is dominant over RED. So a red cow bred to Homo black will be black in color (hetero black - carrying red gene).
The DILUTER gene is DOMINANT over BLACK GENE.
All calves out of Homo blk bulls bred to a cow carrying the diluter gene AND she passes the diluter gene to that calf WILL be grey, mouse, brown, smoky, etc.
Being Homo black does NOT guarantee the offspring will be black in color. It only guarantees the calf will inherit the black gene.
Black gene cattle with a diluter gene is always diluted.
Red gene cattle with a diluter gene may or may not be a light red.

 

[Warren Allison]

A Charolais bull bred to black Angus cows will have smoke or as we used to call them mouse colored calves. It is a diluter gene that even homozygous black doesn't work against in the first generation.
If you bred those F1 Charolais x Angus heifers to another Angus bull, sone of those 3/4 calves will still be variable shades of the smoke color, some maybe darker than the first generation and some will be black.
I used to have registered Charolais and phased them out by breeding to Angus bulls.

You are right. A Char x ang bred to a homozygous for black Angus will yield 25% smoky calves.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

A full Charolais carries TWO diluter genes. ALL the offspring will inherit a diluter gene, therefore it WILL BE diluted. In order to be white, they must carry 2 diluter genes.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Here is a great article for those not understanding the diluter gene:

Color Dilution in Charolais, Highland, Simmental, Galloway, Wagyu, and Hereford Cattle | Veterinary Genetics Laboratory

Variants in the PMEL17 gene (aka SILV) cause a color dilution from red or black to pale cream or white coat color. This gene has a dosage-dependent effect on pigment, with a single allele diluting black to gray and red to pale red, and a double dose producing a significantly lighter coat.

vgl.ucdavis.edu

 

[elkwc]

Push a pencil to that one. To get her to the point where she has a calf at her side to sell. Two winters at 150 days each is 300 days. I figure that it cost $3.00 a day on feed. That is $900. One summer on pasture 215 days at $0.75 a day that is another $161.25. Plus the $289 she sold for. I would have $1,350 into a pair that wouldn't bring over $1,000 around this part of the world.

You must be dry lotting them for it too cost $3.00 per day.

 

[gcreekrch]

You must be dry lotting them for it too cost $3.00 per day.

Winters are longer and feed has gotten very silly in price.

 

[elkwc]

Winters are longer and feed has gotten very silly in price.

Guess I'm spoiled by winters that allow grazing most of the winter. We develop our heifers even with current grain prices for less than $3.00.

 

[Travlr]

Guess I'm spoiled by winters that allow grazing most of the winter. We develop our heifers even with current grain prices for less than $3.00.

If a cow doesn't wean a 600# calf without grain she goes to the sale barn. Other than grass, hay, and a red (or yellow in spring) salt block they don't get any more grain than it takes to teach the leaders to come when they are called. A couple of gallons of grain will call a bunch of cows.

 

[gcreekrch]

If a cow doesn't wean a 600# calf without grain she goes to the sale barn. Other than grass, hay, and a red (or yellow in spring) salt block they don't get any more grain than it takes to teach the leaders to come when they are called. A couple of gallons of grain will call a bunch of cows.

I live where I live because there are no close neighbors. We pay for supplements in exchange for the privllege.

 

[Rmc]

Here is a great article for those not understanding the diluter gene:

Color Dilution in Charolais, Highland, Simmental, Galloway, Wagyu, and Hereford Cattle | Veterinary Genetics Laboratory

Variants in the PMEL17 gene (aka SILV) cause a color dilution from red or black to pale cream or white coat color. This gene has a dosage-dependent effect on pigment, with a single allele diluting black to gray and red to pale red, and a double dose producing a significantly lighter coat.

vgl.ucdavis.edu

On thing to remember in cattle coat color is things aren't as simple as they appear for various reasons.
Coat color in cattle has never been deeply researched especially identifying Gene locations that have been done in other species such as horses.
Not all"registered angus " are homozygous for black. Remember the red angus originated within the registered black angus. That doesn't even go into the none purebred animals that are registered.
Not all color genes are on the same Gene location.
Very little consideration has been given to ,accumulative genes, modifying genes and inhibiting genes when dealing with cattle.

 

[libertygarden]

@Travlr at how many months are you weaning at 600#?

 

[Travlr]

I live where I live because there are no close neighbors. We pay for supplements in exchange for the privllege.

I think someone said you're in Canada (?) and I've always thought Canada had great forage. Not sure why you need supplements. Is the soil poor? I know there are places in the north east of the US that have soil so poor that cattle need minerals.

 

[Travlr]

@Travlr at how many months are you weaning at 600#?

7 months... Did that at both places, Arkansas and SD.

 

[Dave]

You must be dry lotting them for it too cost $3.00 per day.

Grass hay at $220 a ton. Feeding hay every day from some time in December (depending on weather) until we can go to grass in late April. Cows get about 27 pounds of hay per day. They aren't dry lotted. Right now they are snow lotted and will be through February if we are lucky, Later if we aren't.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

For Rmc> I have a half blood Corriente cow (Red Angus) that has had solid black, solid red, black and white spotted and red and white
spotted calves. She is black and white. Her mother was white with black speckles . Her mother black with the brown muzzle. I use purebred Red Angus bulls. I am up to 15/16 red angus and had my first spotted 15/16 calf this spring which would be 4 generations (?) of spotted calves .
This one was a bull so I will need to wait for a 15/16 heifer to see if they will throw true (dominant spot) after the 4th generation.
The 3/4 and up are built like a brick O H. (Never butchered one but I bet the meat would taste black!)
It is my "Box of chocolates" project for my old age.

 

[Davemk]

For Rmc> I have a half blood Corriente cow (Red Angus) that has had solid black, solid red, black and white spotted and red and white
spotted calves. She is black and white. Her mother was white with black speckles . Her mother black with the brown muzzle. I use purebred Red Angus bulls. I am up to 15/16 red angus and had my first spotted 15/16 calf this spring which would be 4 generations (?) of spotted calves .
This one was a bull so I will need to wait for a 15/16 heifer to see if they will throw true (dominant spot) after the 4th generation.
The 3/4 and up are built like a brick O H. (Never butchered one but I bet the meat would taste black!)
It is my "Box of chocolates" project for my old age.

My niece has 15/16 shorthorns that look like white park cattle. It is just about impossible to breed that color pattern out of them.

 

[Little Joe]

For Rmc> I have a half blood Corriente cow (Red Angus) that has had solid black, solid red, black and white spotted and red and white
spotted calves. She is black and white. Her mother was white with black speckles . Her mother black with the brown muzzle. I use purebred Red Angus bulls. I am up to 15/16 red angus and had my first spotted 15/16 calf this spring which would be 4 generations (?) of spotted calves .
This one was a bull so I will need to wait for a 15/16 heifer to see if they will throw true (dominant spot) after the 4th generation.
The 3/4 and up are built like a brick O H. (Never butchered one but I bet the meat would taste black!)
It is my "Box of chocolates" project for my old age.

I've butchered several 1/2 longhorn type and the meat is no different than some angus that I've butchered, hanging weight around 600. They were by ultra black and black baldy bulls. Run them on good grass until 18 months old with some grain, then full grain and hay 60 days, butcher at 20 months.

 

[gcreekrch]

I think someone said you're in Canada (?) and I've always thought Canada had great forage. Not sure why you need supplements. Is the soil poor? I know there are places in the north east of the US that have soil so poor that cattle need minerals.

We are very high in molybdenum here so feed a high copper ratio to offset it Other minerals are lacking some. Calcium and phosphorus are at 300% and 250% required. We made our custom mineral with the help of a couple well respected nutritionists nearly 20 years ago. It was the beginning of so much better health in our herd we won't be stopping using it.
As far as country goes, lots come here because of the scenery and cheaper land values. There are two of us who have been here over 40 years, Two about 20 and the rest 5 years or less. Those of us here the longest have increased in size by purchasing properties from bank sales or from those who have given up trying to change the wheel before the bank took over. She is good to us who live with her and learn to roll with the punches. Some tried to raise those big calves you talk about until they found out how much it cost to raise them.
I prefer to measure dollars left over after expenses on a cow rather than how heavy her calf is. Even our little 350 weight heifers left $300 this year.

 

[Ky hills]

7 months... Did that at both places, Arkansas and SD.

What breed/ breeds of cattle?