Line-Breeding

[Victoria]

I have a question for you all having to do with line-breeding. How acceptable is it in cattle? We have purebred Red Angus.

I have a cow that is related to both of our bulls. My plan is to buy semen for her but I have been wondering ; would the calf be less popular if the same name appeared twice on the paper twice? One of the bulls we have I think she would do well with confirmation wise and the EPD's would be good.

The resulting calf from the mating would have Red HR Rambo ET 91K (son of Red FCC Rambo 502) as the grandsire on the sire's side. On the dam's side the same bull would be on there as the great grandsire.

Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[cedar]

IMO ok

 

[Scotty]

Three Trees sold a 1407 sonXdaughter heifer or cow about a year a go. 5 digit dollar figure. Will try to research to remeber exactly how much. It was the lot 1 of the sale.


Scotty

 

[Angus Guy]

Linebreeding is tricky business. It can be a dud or the best move you made. Most breeders who are linebreeding are looking for some kind of consistancy.

 

[aplusmnt]

Linebreeding is tricky business. It can be a dud or the best move you made. Most breeders who are linebreeding are looking for some kind of consistancy.

Usually if it works out it is linebreeding and if it goes bad it is called inbred

 

[Ryan]

I think that the bull wouldn't be too closely related to be negative. We have had a lot of success breeding half brothers and sisters to each other (both have same sire). But we never got any closer than that.

Good Luck

Ryan

 

[Aero]

if people are buying bulls from you to breed to cows that are unrelated to the bulls you sell, they should only get better results as long as the breeder is selecting for the appropriate traits.

no matter how much inbreeding depression is seen in linebred bulls, when bred to an unrelated mate, there will be no depression and maybe a slight amount of heterosis.

if you are making breeding stock, linebreeding in its intended form, should improve your product.

if i am reading your pedigree description correctly, they should have ~8.125% inbred. just enough to be called "linebred". danger zones are usually found beyond 25%.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

i am completely against line-breeding

inbreeding will select any tiny problematic trait in your genetics and increase it in the next generation. It is the opposite of heterosis, or "negative" heterosis.

Buy the semen, it's inexpensive and in the long run less risky in my opinion.

 

[ollie']

I line breed cattle and am a firm beleiver that it increases predictability.

 

[TxStateCowboy]

for shortsighted goals such as in the longhorn registry, i guess line-breeding is good

but for entire breed health it is the wrong way to go

 

[ollie']

for shortsighted goals such as in the longhorn registry, i guess line-breeding is good

but for entire breed health it is the wrong way to go

If you are a purebred breeder you are line breeding whether you intend to or not. You can increase predictability in fertility, bw, phenotype , etc...what ever you have the perception to notice you can improve with linebreeding and help the breed. I don't understand why you think linebreeding is bad?

 

[dun]

i am completely against line-breeding

inbreeding will select any tiny problematic trait in your genetics and increase it in the next generation. It is the opposite of heterosis, or "negative" heterosis.

Buy the semen, it's inexpensive and in the long run less risky in my opinion.

At his south texas ranch near LaPryor, TX (about an hour from the border) my dad developed a herd that produced huge cattle, and enormous profit.

He started in the 80's buying 15 registered longhorns for dirt cheap prices. He bred them, along with some 10 limousin, and some pure brahma to a monster of a limousin bull. The whole of the group was bred in central texas and then when he bought the ranch in the late 80s he trucked his herd down there to "the mesquite desert" as i like to call the whole area.

Well long story short there has been 2 brangus bulls in that herd for 8 years now, and there are some of the most monstrous, bad-ass beef cattle that we truck out of that place every year or two.

We did not feed them (besides some hay in the winter, hardly though)
The herd count was probably 60-80 last summer before we started rounding them up (the problem, as they were wild as be nice, but we got it done w/o horses, dogs, or help from outside, just had to use tricks and occasionally tackle a few in the pens)
They developed down there by themselves without our intervention, and only the strongest survived, and were not skinny by any means. This method definately worked and we have never given a vaccine or shot or medice to any of our animals.

Nature knows best and always wins, so might as well listen to it.

Obviously those Brangus bulls never bred their daughters since you're so adamantly against in-breeding

dun

 

[TxStateCowboy]

well i'll bet they did, but I had nothing to do with it. I am against the practice being used to exploit a certain trait in one's herd, because there could be another trait (say milking, or suceptibility to a certain disease) that is going just the opposite way of the desired trait.

just trying to make scientific sense out of it, because the beef industry is definately science. Biological, physiological, and cultivation of grasses/foods for growing that beef.

The artistic aspect of cattlemen is when we look at ourselves in the mirror or look outside to the pasture and know what we do and who we are. Maybe spiritual more than artistic.

 

[aplusmnt]

i am completely against line-breeding

inbreeding will select any tiny problematic trait in your genetics and increase it in the next generation. It is the opposite of heterosis, or "negative" heterosis.

Buy the semen, it's inexpensive and in the long run less risky in my opinion.

There is potential for both good and bad. Sometimes it works great and other times it works terribly. Some bulls you might not want to do any line-breeding. For example in the club calf bulls there is a bull called Who Made Who. He has been one of the most successful bulls of all time in club calf breeding. But if he is not used on very sound cows he has a tendency to be make some cripples. So most people would never Line Breed with him. To much potential for things going wrong.

But on the other hand say a bull that has no apparent weaknesses and is a really sound, strong bull. Line-breeding will have a strong chance of magnifying his good attributes and working good for you. Just one of those tools that need to be used wisely, and if so can show some nice success.

 

[SF]

TxStateCowboy; You may want to research this linebreeding topic a little more. Just about every registered breed fullblood breed out there has more than just a little linebreeding in it.

Victoria; Nothing wrong with this mating. You are not very close related. Just be prepared to cull the offspring if they don't turn out the way you want. When I say cull, don't sell to an unsuspecting breeder, if the offspring is not what you are looking for, cull to slaughter.

JMO

 

[TxStateCowboy]

You're right SF and i'm currently doing that, researching the affects of linebreeding, both good and bad.

I do know that some in the TLBAA breed longhorns that have line-bred over so many years they have created these disgusting creatures trying to profit on horn-horn-horn. The problem is, they serve no purpose whatsoever, and are increasingly removing the attributes of the breed that make them worth anything, like longevity, hardiness, and fertility. I am a fan of longhorns and their crosses for these attributes.

 

[Capt Call]

i am completely against line-breeding

inbreeding will select any tiny problematic trait in your genetics and increase it in the next generation. It is the opposite of heterosis, or "negative" heterosis.

Buy the semen, it's inexpensive and in the long run less risky in my opinion.

There is potential for both good and bad. Sometimes it works great and other times it works terribly. Some bulls you might not want to do any line-breeding. For example in the club calf bulls there is a bull called Who Made Who. He has been one of the most successful bulls of all time in club calf breeding. But if he is not used on very sound cows he has a tendency to be make some cripples. So most people would never Line Breed with him. To much potential for things going wrong.

But on the other hand say a bull that has no apparent weaknesses and is a really sound, strong bull. Line-breeding will have a strong chance of magnifying his good attributes and working good for you. Just one of those tools that need to be used wisely, and if so can show some nice success.

Now this is funny advice on linebreeding and you didn't know what a schedule F was on another thread.

 

[Aero]

i am completely against line-breeding

inbreeding will select any tiny problematic trait in your genetics and increase it in the next generation. It is the opposite of heterosis, or "negative" heterosis.

if you are only making slaughter animals, there is no advantage. but if your bulls or cows will be breeding down the road, there is a good reason for it.

do you understand the genetic advantages to linebreeding?

 

[Aero]

, and are increasingly removing the attributes of the breed that make them worth anything, like longevity, hardiness, and fertility. I am a fan of longhorns and their crosses for these attributes.

this does not make linebreeding bad; this just means that those particular breeders are selecting for a different trait than you would.

what if they were selecting for the traits you like. would you still dislike linebreeding?

look at the concept, not your neighbors.

 

[badroute]

If someone thinks linebreeding is no good then they had better let some reputable registered breeders know about it. I would bet that Holden/Cooper Herefords out of Montana would sure argue the fact, it hasn't hurt them much.