Limousin Popularity

[Son of Butch]

1999 ranking of 7 breeds by shear force value, lower score = greater tenderness

Angus 8.4
Simmental 8.8
Hereford 8.9
Red Angus 9.0
Limousin 9.1
Charolais 9.4
Gelbvieh 9.8

<8.58 = tender
8.58 - 10.11 = intermediate
10.12+ = tough

 

[WalnutCrest]

WC, you wrote about "fibre type" of the muscle, can you expand on what you mean? Is this breed specific? How does this relate to tenderness?

Some breeds are generally more tender than another (see SoBs post above)...but its not just a breed by breed thing.

Basically, longer, thinner muscle fibers are easier to cut than shorter, thicker ones. Some of this can come from mutations in the myostatin area (F94L, nt821, etc), and some variation in muscle fiber diameter occurs naturally between animals of the same breed, even the same herd.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Basically, longer, thinner muscle fibers are easier to cut than shorter, thicker ones. Some of this can come from mutations in the myostatin area (F94L, nt821, etc), and some variation in muscle fiber diameter occurs naturally between animals of the same breed, even the same herd.

How repeatable is breeding for this?

 

[Son of Butch]

Breeding for individual carcass traits has the lowest profit potential of all selection criteria.
Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatch azz Angus gene

 

[Stocker Steve]

Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatch azz Angus gene

:nod:

Will have to get some Hatch Azz x Jersey heifers :cowboy:

 

[Stocker Steve]

Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatch azz Angus gene

:nod:

But if you are not into profitable commodity cattle - - some Hatch Azz x Jersey heifers may be just the ticket :cowboy:

 

[WalnutCrest]

Basically, longer, thinner muscle fibers are easier to cut than shorter, thicker ones. Some of this can come from mutations in the myostatin area (F94L, nt821, etc), and some variation in muscle fiber diameter occurs naturally between animals of the same breed, even the same herd.

How repeatable is breeding for this?

Don't know. We track customer feedback to sires and cow families ... not nearly enough information to make any decisions ... but, it is (part of) the path we're on.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Breeding for individual carcass traits has the lowest profit potential of all selection criteria.

Not necessarily. Depends on what prices are realized for the animals raised...

Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatch azz Angus gene

Not all hatch azz cattle are tender. Not all tender beef came from hatch azz cattle. Not all Angus cattle are tender. Tender cattle can be something other than Angus influenced.

 

[Son of Butch]

Breeding for individual carcass traits has the lowest profit potential of all selection criteria.

Not necessarily. Depends on what prices are realized for the animals raised...

Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatchet azz Angus gene

Not all Angus cattle are tender. Tender cattle can be something other than Angus influenced.

yeah, yeah, yeah individual variation in all breeds I get it, but breed averages favor Angus, so overall odds favor Angus

I know of no market paying a premium based on shear force, so putting cart before the horse to place much emphasis on selection favoring it. I was just speculating on possible downside of selecting for a tenderness gene and have no data to back it up. But Charolais, Gelbvieh and Limos average more muscling than the average Angus, so maybe a
correlation. I know, I know some Angus individuals have more muscling than some Gelbvieh ect ect... I get it, I get it
but the odds are against it.

 

[Nesikep]

I know it doesn't matter to anyone else, but if my mouth doesn't water when I look at a steer it does mean something to me.. even though looks can be deceiving... Seeing a nicely muscled animal that makes you want to just cut a steak out.. That's what I like... So far I haven't been disappointed either.
I wish I had been able to keep this guy, the one I was hoping to find a 4H home for... but I already had his older maternal brother (who's darned tender!)
This guy is Limo Gelbvieh Saler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5DgVoecp_E

 

[Son of Butch]

I know it doesn't matter to anyone else, but if my mouth doesn't water when I look at a steer it does mean something to me. Seeing a nicely muscled animal that makes you want to just cut a steak out.. That's what I like...
I wish I had been able to keep this guy,

There you go Nesi name the next one you get like him Delicious

 

[Nesikep]

His tag was 99.. so that's Wayne Gretzky... Stepdad of a friend of mine is Wayne, always called him Wiener.. So the steers name was Wiener

 

[WalnutCrest]

Breeding for individual carcass traits has the lowest profit potential of all selection criteria.

Not necessarily. Depends on what prices are realized for the animals raised...

Tenderness gene will probably end up correlating with some hatchet azz Angus gene

Not all Angus cattle are tender. Tender cattle can be something other than Angus influenced.

yeah, yeah, yeah individual variation in all breeds I get it, but breed averages among only the seven breeds posted previously favor Angus, so overall odds favor Angus

I know of no market paying a premium based on shear force except for the direct to consumer route that's very tied to the dining experience of the consumer, word of mouth marketing and repeat customers, so putting cart before the horse to place much emphasis on selection favoring it. I was just speculating on possible downside of selecting for a tenderness gene and have no data to back it up. But Charolais, Gelbvieh and Limos average more muscling than the average Angus, so maybe a
correlation. I know, I know some Angus individuals have more muscling than some Gelbvieh ect ect... I get it, I get it
but the odds are against it.

Fixed for accuracy in two places.

Single trait selection is not a winning long term game...we agree on that.

I'm a fan of encouraging people to raise cattle of any breed that are hardy in the pasture and tender on the plate.

 

[True Grit Farms]

It's no mistake that Angus is at the top for tenderness and taste. Some folks think it's because of AAA, nope. You can only fool some of the people some of the time, but before long they'll figure it out. The world consumes more hamburger than any other cut of beef. Have you ever ate a tough hamburger?

 

[WalnutCrest]

Absolutely? No.

Relatively? Yes.

 

[Son of Butch]

Not necessarily. Depends on what prices are realized for the animals raised...



Not all Angus cattle are tender. Tender cattle can be something other than Angus influenced.

yeah, yeah, yeah individual variation in all breeds I get it, but breed averages among only the seven (major) breeds posted previously favor Angus, so overall odds favor Angus

I know of no market paying a premium based on shear force except for the direct to consumer route that's very tied to the dining experience of the consumer, word of mouth marketing and repeat customers,
So how much is that premium based on Shear Force? And how do you determine the Shear Force value on each animal you market? Or are you just blowing smoke with testimonials and no hard data? so putting cart before the horse to place much emphasis on selection favoring it. I was just speculating on possible downside of selecting for a tenderness gene and have no data to back it up. But Charolais, Gelbvieh and Limos average more muscling than the average Angus, so maybe a
correlation. I know, I know some Angus individuals have more muscling than some Gelbvieh ect ect... I get it, I get it
but the odds are against it.

Fixed for accuracy in two places.
You fixed my comments by adding to them rather than just replying?
IF you have data for other breeds then why not post it, rather than adding opinion and call it fixing?

Single trait selection is not a winning long term game...we agree on that.

I'm a fan of encouraging people to raise cattle of any breed that are hardy in the pasture and tender on the plate.

 

[WalnutCrest]

The "really good dining experience" premium is based on lots of things, including the overall dining experience of our beef buyers. This is not a comment only related to what I do ... anyone selling beef directly to the consumer must have repeat buyers and word-of-mouth advertising, or it won't really work. To get both, people need to like what they eat. If they have a bad experience, they'll go somewhere else. If they have a great experience, many will pay good prices for something they know they'll like.

I don't determine shear force on every animal, except with the use of customer incisors and their feedback. Consistent comments back about an animal sired by Bull X, Y or Z (or out of cow family A, B or C) will give us insight into which animals create better dining experiences for our beef buying clients, and we use that information when making breeding decisions (AI, ET, live cover).

While it takes time to get this information, it's not exactly rocket surgery. And while it isn't exactly according to the "Gospel of EPD-focused decision making" it isn't like it's counter-intuitive either.

PS -- Sorry if I offended by editing and calling it 'fixing'. It's a common practice at another MB I'm a member of. Any offence given wasn't intended.