Hey all. I have 10 cows and a bull all in the field together at all times. My heifers are just calving now. Is it ok to just leave him in there with them? I have one cow that has an 8 month old calf that is about to calf anytime now. So she got pregnant on her first cycle after calving last year. Is this ok? Should I give them a break?
Letting the bull run with the herd
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Bright Raven
Well-known member
A cow/heifer needs about 40 to 60 days postpartum for the reproductive system to recover.
True Grit Farms
Well-known member
Leave him in with them he won't breed them till their ready. Letting a bull run with the herd is the best way to keep him out of trouble.
Well here's my $.02. Agree with both Raven & Grit. But Raven doesn't run bulls & has the luxury of synchronized timing. I don't live in a perfect world and my calving should have ended 1st week of May - except for a first calf heifer that finally dropped one last night. Had her due end of March. Did she abort & breed back? Dunno. But it is what it is and the bulls are now turned out so she can potentially breed back before 40-60 days.
My question is why do you still have a cow with an 8 month old calf on her that is ready to calve again? If I'm reading/understanding that correctly. And is it a heifer calf? If so, that calf can get bred before she's even weaned.
My question is why do you still have a cow with an 8 month old calf on her that is ready to calve again? If I'm reading/understanding that correctly. And is it a heifer calf? If so, that calf can get bred before she's even weaned.
JMJ Farms
Well-known member
I pull my bulls out on 3 herds. On the 4th herd, the Bull stays with them year round. I see advantages and disadvantages in both approaches. It comes down to whatever works best for you.
On the 8 month old calf. If the calf is exactly 8 months old, you have at least 7 weeks minimum before momma calves again. I would get that calf weaned ASAP so momma could have adequate time to make colostrum and hopefully recover a little bit.
On the 8 month old calf. If the calf is exactly 8 months old, you have at least 7 weeks minimum before momma calves again. I would get that calf weaned ASAP so momma could have adequate time to make colostrum and hopefully recover a little bit.
Nesikep
Well-known member
If you can leave the bull with lots of company and pull out one or two cows for a while after calving that might keep him out of trouble and yet give the cows a little break... Agreed with JMJ, wean that calf if it's still nursing!
Redgully
Well-known member
When i had a mixed herd we ran a bull year round but all heifers were taken out at six months. To me if the cow is able to get in calf will. It worked well for us as our climate allows calving at any time and cows would pump out an extra couple of calves over their lifetime. A lady i know also calves year round and has around 100 cows and 1 bull covers the lot. This is offset by the extra handling of course but they just pulled the ten biggest each month and sent to market.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
I am a strong believer of NOT leaving a bull in with herd, but I have a complete health program and it would absolutely be a nightmare to try to vaccinate cattle properly if they were calving year around.
Having said that, if you are comfortable having a calf "whenever", it is the least management system you can have leaving the bull with the herd. But, you need to be diligent in pulling HEIFERS at 6 months of age and never let them back near a bull until they are old enough/ big enough to be getting pregnant.
So, one way or another, you have to have the ability to keep BULL away from weaned heifers, or BULL away from herd.
In the system of letting a bull breed all the time, you will have cows calve in 10 months occasionally. It will either make them or break them. Some can handle it, holding their weight, others will be fertile myrtles and breed right back, but will be a rack of bones. They will cull themselves.
Having said that, if you are comfortable having a calf "whenever", it is the least management system you can have leaving the bull with the herd. But, you need to be diligent in pulling HEIFERS at 6 months of age and never let them back near a bull until they are old enough/ big enough to be getting pregnant.
So, one way or another, you have to have the ability to keep BULL away from weaned heifers, or BULL away from herd.
In the system of letting a bull breed all the time, you will have cows calve in 10 months occasionally. It will either make them or break them. Some can handle it, holding their weight, others will be fertile myrtles and breed right back, but will be a rack of bones. They will cull themselves.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Also, this is the herd that has been having abnormal calves, indicating the bull may (most likely) be carrying a birth defect. Do you really want him to be breeding his daughters? You can expect most of their calves to be born defective.
Here is the calving history:
In the last 5 years this is how it's gone
First calf - died of navel ill
Second calf - born healthy
Third calf - got joint ill, born to the same dam that calved the first calf, mother died shortly after giving birth, steer survived the joint ill
Fourth calf - PHA calf
Took 2 years off and got 6 bottle calves that I raised up. Got a new bull. Those 6 bottle calves I bred to a new bull.
Fifth calf - born healthy
Sixth calf - stillborn
4 more to come from those 6 bottle calves I raised up.
Out of 6 calves, you have had 2 healthy calves. Just so you understand, this is not a normal % of problems. None of us could survive that rate of sickness/loss. I would be considering working with your vet to improve your management system, and would not use that bull again.
A normal situation, a cow should have a calf every 12 months.
Here is the calving history:
In the last 5 years this is how it's gone
First calf - died of navel ill
Second calf - born healthy
Third calf - got joint ill, born to the same dam that calved the first calf, mother died shortly after giving birth, steer survived the joint ill
Fourth calf - PHA calf
Took 2 years off and got 6 bottle calves that I raised up. Got a new bull. Those 6 bottle calves I bred to a new bull.
Fifth calf - born healthy
Sixth calf - stillborn
4 more to come from those 6 bottle calves I raised up.
Out of 6 calves, you have had 2 healthy calves. Just so you understand, this is not a normal % of problems. None of us could survive that rate of sickness/loss. I would be considering working with your vet to improve your management system, and would not use that bull again.
A normal situation, a cow should have a calf every 12 months.
Dsth
Well-known member
My question is why do you still have a cow with an 8 month old calf on her that is ready to calve again? If I'm reading/understanding that correctly. And is it a heifer calf? If so, that calf can get bred before she's even weaned.
I agree with TC. had a neighbors bull get in with herd with 7 month old calves with cows. calf got bred. I didn't find out until breeding season came around and she wouldn.t come into heat. Vet checked her and said she was 7 months pregnant.
I agree with TC. had a neighbors bull get in with herd with 7 month old calves with cows. calf got bred. I didn't find out until breeding season came around and she wouldn.t come into heat. Vet checked her and said she was 7 months pregnant.
You will have a hard time keeping that bull entertained. You best shot will be random calves thru out the year and leaving the bull in. Cull the cows that cant hang.
Your other option will be building a pen specifically for him to stay roughly 9 months out of the year.
Your other option will be building a pen specifically for him to stay roughly 9 months out of the year.
TCRanch said:
The calf is weaned. I put a nose flap on him at 6 months after I realized she was so pregnant and was getting thin. He is fully weaned. This is how I always wean my calves, I usually give them 12 months though but her calf hasn't tried to nurse since a few days after the nose flap was in.
Her calf is a bull calf.
Dsth said:
He's weaned. We don't separate our calves for weaning. We use nose flaps. This calf has been weaned for 2 months now so she could gather herself and allow her colostrum to come in.
I've actually NEVER had a heifer calf born on the farm so its not been an issue yet. But the plan has always been if we have heifer calves they will move to our other farm. We have 10 acres waiting for them but have yet to have a heifer calf. My one born on the weekend was another bull calf.
snoopdog
Well-known member
If your cows are maintaining condition, and getting the proper nutrition at the RIGHT time during pregnancy, you have nothing to worry about. Plenty of people natural wean, even though I try not to, circumstances exist. I know a guy that, is the only way he weans, and when his calves come in the ring, its an extra dime to buy them.
We pulled a heifer out of our yearlings this week that is bagging and brought her home. She was bred at about 150 days.
Would rather have uniformity and convenience of controlled birthdates than the runaway of never knowing what happens next. The above heifer is just a reminder that nothing is 100% perfect.
Would rather have uniformity and convenience of controlled birthdates than the runaway of never knowing what happens next. The above heifer is just a reminder that nothing is 100% perfect.
Redgully
Well-known member
cowgal604 said:
Nose flaps aren't really meant to be used like that. They are designed to go in for a week before seperating to stop them stressing, mimicking a natural wean by the cow. After a week they can pretty quickly work out how to suck around it. Having said that if it works for you and they do completely wean then keep on keeping on.
Redgully said:
We've never even had a nose flap stay in for 7 days haha. They usually fall out after 3-5 days and then at that point the calf has stopped nursing and the mother starts kicking it off if it tries. Because we are a small farm it has done the trick for us. But this is really the first year where I have had a cow calving with such a young calf by her side. We usually done wean until 12 months and its usually natural at that point. They just stop. But, we are hobby farmers and these are for the most part pets.
uplandnut
Well-known member
Bull goes out the first weekend of june and gets penned separately when the first calf hits the ground in march. Figured that gives me a little piece of mind to know I won't have to deal with calving from December to march, usually our worst part of winter. Also give me an easy way to determine who stays and who goes on the cow end, anyone that doesn't calve by December didn't get bred and goes down the road in the fall with the calves.
