Killing herd bull.
- Thread starter S.R.R.
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4-5 years old or four to five in the field. To me think 6 max. if he has rough country. Hand breeding he can go longer. I suggest a breeding soundness exam at the start of the year. And allways watch to see through out the year if he is working. Believe me the time is worth the effort.
Scotty
Scotty
SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE
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Scotty":31tmyoou said:
Good advice.... ;-) :cboy:
J&T Farm
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Well it also depends on how many cow per year one is servicing. Ive seen bulls breed a herd of about 20 cows for 7 and 8 yrs. They hated to get rid of him because he stayed home and threw good calves. Not often the case though.
It used to be, when I was a kid, and we ran straight commercial Herefords, that the "old" bulls were 13-14 years old when we sold them.
Anymore with all this performance and hard feeding going on, they just won't last. 4 years is national average. Most guys can't get one to live and be functional past 7.
The last Hereford bull I used was one from a friend that still had the old breeding and and was developed on grass. He was 11 years old when I turned him out, and would have been used again except that he badly cut his foot on some scrap metal. He bred 43 cows in 66 days, so I don't buy into that BS about taking it easy on them, either. This was in a 1280 acre pasture with 2 main sources of water. The reason we have to take it easy on them is because they are so screwed up. If they have the right genetics and are developed right, there is no reason a bull can't breed 40 or more cows each year for his lifetime. Of course, I'm talking about 2 year olds to start with, not yearlings.
A real screw-up in my opinion. We simply have too much power in the cow herd now, to maintain long-term productivity, and I think it is reflected in the useful life of the bulls.
mtnman
Anymore with all this performance and hard feeding going on, they just won't last. 4 years is national average. Most guys can't get one to live and be functional past 7.
The last Hereford bull I used was one from a friend that still had the old breeding and and was developed on grass. He was 11 years old when I turned him out, and would have been used again except that he badly cut his foot on some scrap metal. He bred 43 cows in 66 days, so I don't buy into that BS about taking it easy on them, either. This was in a 1280 acre pasture with 2 main sources of water. The reason we have to take it easy on them is because they are so screwed up. If they have the right genetics and are developed right, there is no reason a bull can't breed 40 or more cows each year for his lifetime. Of course, I'm talking about 2 year olds to start with, not yearlings.
A real screw-up in my opinion. We simply have too much power in the cow herd now, to maintain long-term productivity, and I think it is reflected in the useful life of the bulls.
mtnman
Jake
Well-known member
flaboy":13v4cx7w said:
We have a 7 year old bull on the place now. He's ready to go. he's on about 5 strikes and his genetics are in quite a few head now.
SRR: I guess it depends on your situation, if you have 20 cows and run one bull you probably shouldn't rely on him quite as long, because if he gets hurt there is no backup. But if you run him over more cows with a couple of other bulls and you are proud you bought him I would try to keep him until he is 6 or 7. As long as he can hold his own with the others, let him work for you. One, it cheapens the purchase for you, one more calf crop to divide his cost over. Two, it might help you keep the cow to bull ratio a little better. Three, it covers your butt if something happens to another one. We like to have one "extra" bull. It is impossible to find another good one in season and you hate to buy one for just one year. If the bull is 7, and we don't need him, we usually keep him in the lot just in case, until we get through the breeding season. If in doubt, take a good look at the bull, a lot of time just the way he looks and acts can tell a lot, especially if you keep him with other bulls. If he is getting weak, they will let you know it. Outside of that, as stated, put them through a soundness exam every year.
I think one of the biggest problems is that the bulls are not cared for properly. They get ran down and never built back up befor the breeding season. Another is multiple bull herds tend to fight and get hurt or worn out quicker. Good selection on a bulls confermation and his genetic background helps.
Scotty
Scotty
stocky
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The majority of my bulls are still breeding at 8 or 9 years old. I have mostly charlois. When I ran white parks bulls they went way past 10 years old. Sometimes the problem with a charlois is that he will get too big by 4 or 5 if you dont have him with enough cows when he is young. In my part of the country, a 2,000 lb bull is too big to be practical. It is best to keep the bull at around 1800lb max
stocky
Well-known member
Ollie, not sure if you meant that you want your bull bigger or smaller than the 1800 lbs. The mature weight all depends upon how you use them. The genetics get you the calf crop you want. We have alot of hills and most of our bulls are 1600-1700 lbs. Over 1800, they dont get around and breed the cows and they get crippled up with all that weight on the rocky hillsides. I put them with the cows young, and and keep them with the cows all year round and make sure there are enough cows that the bulls dont get huge. It does me no good to buy a good bull and let him get to 1800-2000 lbs by the time he is 4 years old and have to sell him before he even gets to his good calf years. I want them to last until they are 7 or 8 years or more. If I hold one back until he is 2 and then use him on a limited number of cows and only have him with the cows certain times of the year, by the time he is 4, he is too big for my cows and my pastures and I only have 2 or 3 calf crops out of him. I use charlois and they get huge quick if you dont keep them busy. All ares of the country are different, though
tapeworm
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Ollie: " Just not enough volume and thickness at that weight for me . "
Hey ollie I guess it depends on how tall he is!! LOL
I know you like elephants but I just dont think we need bulls as big as there gettting now days...all we need is a 1400# animal to kill at 20 months...why do we have to have such huge mature weights????
Hey ollie I guess it depends on how tall he is!! LOL
I know you like elephants but I just dont think we need bulls as big as there gettting now days...all we need is a 1400# animal to kill at 20 months...why do we have to have such huge mature weights????
branxchar&charx
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tapeworm":2fun3bcu said:
but if you have bigger mature weights wouldnt the calf get to 1400#s quicker than if you had a 1000# cow and a 1500# bull.
or are the ratios the same when regarding birth weight to weaning weight and the such.
tapeworm
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seems like it would get there quicker...I jsut dont know how quick we need to get there. Cant we get there by 20 months without having elephants at maturity???
Thats a good question about the ratios...I dont know...maybe ollie or one of the other college boys will know...or maybe even one of the college GIRLS?? LOL
Thats a good question about the ratios...I dont know...maybe ollie or one of the other college boys will know...or maybe even one of the college GIRLS?? LOL
stocky
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All depends on what a person likes and what they can afford and what their topography is like. For my hills and creek and river bottoms my 1000 lb cows that I sell 700 lb calves right off the cows will eat 40 percent less feed than a 1560 lb cow. The only cows that get that big around here are either barren cows or cows that wont give any milk. 1500 lb cows around here get crippled up pretty bad on these hills, and I sure dont want to try to feed one---but, to each his own according to his situation and purpose for having them.
bigbull338
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the 3 bulls im running right now are all 7 or older.and they are still getting cows bred.they are getting a tad old now tho.really need to replace them.but hate looking for bulls.scott
