My sons rope horse is not feeling well. I noticed him laying down a little more than I like to see on Sunday. I immediately suspicioned colic. I listened to his gut, and it sounded normal to me. I gave him banamine and called the vet. He listened, and didn't think he was colicing. He looked fine Monday morning, and sluggish again Monday night------ more banamine. Same routine on Tuesday. I had the vet come out again today. No temp, drew blood that came back normal. He had me continue the banamine twice a day, and added penicillin to the routine for three more days. I dewormed him on Saturday before all this started. Same routine that I've used my whole life-------every other time I shoe I worm. I would think a virus would have already passed by now. His apatite is off, but not gone totally. He's passing manure that looks normal. Anybody got any thoughts on what it might be. My sons only 8, and we buried his starter horse a week and a half ago. The little fella has been through a lot lately. I'm in pretty deep on this horse financially. I bought him as a finished calf horse. I've always just built my own untill this one. I've had the horse for two years ago, and never a sick day. The horse is in his prime at 9 years old.
Kids horse sick
- Thread starter Bigfoot
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Ouachita
Well-known member
I don't know much about horses, but I know a lot about kids and how much this situation can weigh on a father. I hope you can figure it out, and all will be okay
cross_7
Well-known member
feeding alfalfa ?
cross_7
Well-known member
chippie
Well-known member
It sounds like he may have a stomach upset from the deworming. Ask your vet about giving something to soothe his stomach and if ulcers could be causing it. Is he showing any other signs of discomfort - grinding teeth for example.
What product did you use?
I had a horse get sick from black blister beetles.
The hay came from the panhandle area.
What product did you use?
I had a horse get sick from black blister beetles.
The hay came from the panhandle area.highgrit
Well-known member
Why would you treat the horse with banamine and penicillin when you don't know what's wrong with it?? I sure hope the horse gets better.
Good Luck with it.
Good Luck with it.
highgrit":2lnagt1w said:
The was my thought also, I wasn't going to weigh in but what the heck. You may be complicating thing by messing with him so much. I would nothing else to him for a couple of days and let his system "reset". You could give him a slightly warm mash to help settle things a bit. Soak some beet pulp for a few hours add some grain, molasses, and bran. Makes no sense to me to give a horse with no temp, not colicing, and normal blood work banimine with pen. Sound like the Vet is just doing a CYA. I would really just take him off all meds, my thoughts is it,was a reaction to the wormer and would probably passed on it's own.
:2cents: Good luck
chippie
Well-known member
I would be careful about changing his feed up too much if you are not feeding a sweet feed.
As long as he is pooping, he shouldn't need the bran mash. Bran can be hard on the stomach.
Did you use Quest?
As long as he is pooping, he shouldn't need the bran mash. Bran can be hard on the stomach.
Did you use Quest?
Good point chippie, I went against my own advice about not screwing around with the horse, just let things reset. I've never had a problem with qwest, but every once in a great while one of our horses will act like they are starting to colic after worming, it's always passes in a few hours. I rotate wormers but I have never pin pointed one type of wormer causing it.
chippie
Well-known member
He may have had tapeworms and is feeling bad from the worms dying. I would keep things simple. Maybe cut the banamine back to once daily. Are you giving him Banamine paste?
I know that many people will give Banamine as soon as they think that a horse is colicing. Doing that is not always a good thing. It will mask the pain, and if the horse has an impaction, by the time you realize what is going on, it may be too late.
I have a friend whose husband is unbelievably cheap. Several years ago, one of their horses was acting off. It wasn't laying down or rolling so he decided that it was not colicing and gave it Banamine. Well the horse was colicing andit had an impaction. While they were waiting for it to feel better, it's gut ruptured and died a horrific death. They lost a second one this past summer due to a gas colic. Wouldn't take it to the vet to get it tubed with oil, he gave it banamine instead.
So if one of my horses is showing signs of colic or gastric distress, I haul it to the vet.
I know that many people will give Banamine as soon as they think that a horse is colicing. Doing that is not always a good thing. It will mask the pain, and if the horse has an impaction, by the time you realize what is going on, it may be too late.
I have a friend whose husband is unbelievably cheap. Several years ago, one of their horses was acting off. It wasn't laying down or rolling so he decided that it was not colicing and gave it Banamine. Well the horse was colicing andit had an impaction. While they were waiting for it to feel better, it's gut ruptured and died a horrific death. They lost a second one this past summer due to a gas colic. Wouldn't take it to the vet to get it tubed with oil, he gave it banamine instead.
So if one of my horses is showing signs of colic or gastric distress, I haul it to the vet.
First off I'll say up front that I think chippie and I only have a slight difference in thought on this, I too thought about worms causing and impaction, but you worm on a regular basis, do you rotate wormers? Sounds like the horse had a bit of reaction, but one thing I don't understand is why continued banimine and pen? I'll get back to that question. To answer your question when we have a horse colic it's alway banimine paste. But other than laying down more often than you thought was normal the horse was not showing signs of colic. You listened for gastrol sounds, they were present, the horse is having normal bowel movements, colicing horses also will roll a lot. So I question wether your horse was colicing, he may had a slight, short term colic but no real signs of colic. So when one of ours colics it's a dose of banimine and walking and walking to hopefully get some bowels movement, when I tire of walking it's in the trailer, 95% of the time the horse poops getting in the trailer or on a short ride.
My confusion is the continued banimine and pen. No signs of colic, no temp so no fever, blood panel was normal so normal what is the vet treating? Not saying you're doing this, but I don't know how many times I ran into someone who tells me the horse just ain't right. When asked what the horse is doing and how they are treating it, it turns out they are trying everything anyone tells them to do. Two days on this drug, switched to this drug, trying this feed, switched to this feed. All they are doing is screwing up the horse more.
Again just my :2cents:
My confusion is the continued banimine and pen. No signs of colic, no temp so no fever, blood panel was normal so normal what is the vet treating? Not saying you're doing this, but I don't know how many times I ran into someone who tells me the horse just ain't right. When asked what the horse is doing and how they are treating it, it turns out they are trying everything anyone tells them to do. Two days on this drug, switched to this drug, trying this feed, switched to this feed. All they are doing is screwing up the horse more.
Again just my :2cents:
Agreed with you Alan.
>>My confusion is the continued banimine and pen. No signs of colic, no temp so no fever, blood panel was normal so normal what is the vet treating? Not saying you're doing this, but I don't know how many times I ran into someone who tells me the horse just ain't right. When asked what the horse is doing and how they are treating it, it turns out they are trying everything anyone tells them to do. Two days on this drug, switched to this drug, trying this feed, switched to this feed. All they are doing is screwing up the horse more.<<
No point in treating if you don't know what you're treating....
That said, I'd have the vet run a chemistry panel as well as a complete blood profile (CBC) and see if there isn't something that gets picked up there. Another option for the horse is an abdominocentesis (check abdominal fluid) to look for abnormalities.
Middle aged horse, frequent causes of colic there would be sand colic, mesenteric lipomas (fatty growth that can strangulate intestines due to weight), enteroliths (mass of intestinal contents e.g mineralized ball of mucus and/or feed, that is gradually added to over time; can get trapped in various locations of the large intestine), displaced colon etc (pelvic flexure of the large intestine isn't anchored to anything in the horse), large strongylus (S. vulgaris) in the cranial mesenteric artery (loss of blood flow to various parts of the intestine- classic lesion as part of the parasite's life cycle), or various impactions or unknown causes (e.g. horse is opened up in surgery and nothing abnormal can be found). All of the above can cause acute pain or mild, chronic colic. Had a 3 y/o filly in here for surgery last week with a twisted large intestine, mild colic for 2 weeks.
None of the above problems would be fixed with banamine and antibiotics.
Rotating wormers - is not recommended. Use one until it no longer works with some exceptions (e.g. worm for tapeworms yearly or as needed). Recent rep who came through here said the new equine recommendations include doing fecal floats to determine horses who are high shedders, and worm those horses frequently, and horses that are known to be low shedders on an intermittent basis.
I wouldn't assume that because an animal exhibits pain after one wormer, that the contents itself were caustic, painful, etc. It may be that *that* wormer is actually effective against the parasites and they are causing discomfort to the horse during their dying spasms. Not all wormers are equally effective. Saw a 4 month old foal here earlier in the semester that had been wormed with X wormer the month before, they wormed with Y wormer and the foal colicked. At surgery there was a severe ascarid impaction- it had been going on longer than the month between X and Y wormers.
>>My confusion is the continued banimine and pen. No signs of colic, no temp so no fever, blood panel was normal so normal what is the vet treating? Not saying you're doing this, but I don't know how many times I ran into someone who tells me the horse just ain't right. When asked what the horse is doing and how they are treating it, it turns out they are trying everything anyone tells them to do. Two days on this drug, switched to this drug, trying this feed, switched to this feed. All they are doing is screwing up the horse more.<<
No point in treating if you don't know what you're treating....
That said, I'd have the vet run a chemistry panel as well as a complete blood profile (CBC) and see if there isn't something that gets picked up there. Another option for the horse is an abdominocentesis (check abdominal fluid) to look for abnormalities.
Middle aged horse, frequent causes of colic there would be sand colic, mesenteric lipomas (fatty growth that can strangulate intestines due to weight), enteroliths (mass of intestinal contents e.g mineralized ball of mucus and/or feed, that is gradually added to over time; can get trapped in various locations of the large intestine), displaced colon etc (pelvic flexure of the large intestine isn't anchored to anything in the horse), large strongylus (S. vulgaris) in the cranial mesenteric artery (loss of blood flow to various parts of the intestine- classic lesion as part of the parasite's life cycle), or various impactions or unknown causes (e.g. horse is opened up in surgery and nothing abnormal can be found). All of the above can cause acute pain or mild, chronic colic. Had a 3 y/o filly in here for surgery last week with a twisted large intestine, mild colic for 2 weeks.
None of the above problems would be fixed with banamine and antibiotics.
Rotating wormers - is not recommended. Use one until it no longer works with some exceptions (e.g. worm for tapeworms yearly or as needed). Recent rep who came through here said the new equine recommendations include doing fecal floats to determine horses who are high shedders, and worm those horses frequently, and horses that are known to be low shedders on an intermittent basis.
I wouldn't assume that because an animal exhibits pain after one wormer, that the contents itself were caustic, painful, etc. It may be that *that* wormer is actually effective against the parasites and they are causing discomfort to the horse during their dying spasms. Not all wormers are equally effective. Saw a 4 month old foal here earlier in the semester that had been wormed with X wormer the month before, they wormed with Y wormer and the foal colicked. At surgery there was a severe ascarid impaction- it had been going on longer than the month between X and Y wormers.
OP
OP
Bigfoot
Well-known member
The vets been out twice. I kinda hate to not do what he tells me. Horse felt fine this morning, and laying around this evening. That 5 days in a row. My dad drives good for his age, but not great in strange places or pulling a trailer. I'm thinking about sending him out of town to a vet in the morning.
chippie
Well-known member
I sure hope that he gets well. Prayers are lifted.
This is turning out to be a tough year for our special four footed friends. : ( Makes it even tougher when it is a kid's.
This is turning out to be a tough year for our special four footed friends. : ( Makes it even tougher when it is a kid's.
jedstivers
Well-known member
Well it's good to see MM has been paying attention in class. Don't forgot us when your rich and famous. :mrgreen:
LOL Jed, I'm not sure rich or famous will ever apply, but I wouldn't forget my cow friends regardless! ;-)
Couple more possibilities on colic.... at this horse's age, other possibilities would be gastric ulcers, colonic impaction (for unknown reasons sometimes forward -er, backward- movement no longer happens), impending diarrhea e.g. Salmonella (sounds like fecal contents are normal though), and of course neoplasia (cancer) is always a differential in a middle aged or older animal.
Regarding the medication prescribed, I'd better clarify what I said before. We do often give pain meds- banamine to heavy sedation- to colicking horses, but the goal is simply to see if the pain can be managed and if the problem is transient (e.g. an enterolith infrequently blocking the large intestine or cecum would cause transient discomfort). If the pain can't be managed the horse gets euthanized or is sent to surgery.
Couple more possibilities on colic.... at this horse's age, other possibilities would be gastric ulcers, colonic impaction (for unknown reasons sometimes forward -er, backward- movement no longer happens), impending diarrhea e.g. Salmonella (sounds like fecal contents are normal though), and of course neoplasia (cancer) is always a differential in a middle aged or older animal.
Regarding the medication prescribed, I'd better clarify what I said before. We do often give pain meds- banamine to heavy sedation- to colicking horses, but the goal is simply to see if the pain can be managed and if the problem is transient (e.g. an enterolith infrequently blocking the large intestine or cecum would cause transient discomfort). If the pain can't be managed the horse gets euthanized or is sent to surgery.
I sure hope he gets well soon. You know it's only the nice ones that have problems. I bought myself a nice horse and had him fir 5 weeks before he went down. The other four are like cock roaches, couldn't kill em if you wanted to.
