Keep your cows in our you could go to jail.

[bmoore87]

http://www.kten.com/story/32156093/owner-is-charged-with-manslaughter-after-bull-causes-crash

We seem to be making new laws for every bad thing that happens that hold someone at fault and nothing can just be an accident any more. Would like to start charging the DNR for their deer being on the road.

 

[TCRanch]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=103782

A recent thread that segued into that same topic. At least around here, if cattle are out the Sheriff Dept should be notified. I agree that ranchers have an obligation to maintain fencing & keep their animals secure. If you have a perpetual fence-jumper, that animal should be culled. If your cattle are always out & someone is injured or killed, why wouldn't you be held responsible?

 

[Muddy]

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=103782

A recent thread that segued into that same topic. At least around here, if cattle are out the Sheriff Dept should be notified. I agree that ranchers have an obligation to maintain fencing & keep their animals secure. If you have a perpetual fence-jumper, that animal should be culled. If your cattle are always out & someone is injured or killed, why wouldn't you be held responsible?

I agree with it.

 

[callmefence]

If the report is accurate the rancher was negligent and there should be consequences

 

[SteppedInIt]

Sounds like if the case was settled with the wife, the state should leave it alone.

 

[Ky hills]

While I agree that every effort should be made to keep livestock in, there is a reality that things happen beyond any of our control. Trees on fences, trespassers leaving gates open or damaging fences, cattle being spooked, any number of situations can occur without knowledge of the livestock owner, even if they may inspect their boundary fences daily.

 

[TCRanch]

While I agree that every effort should be made to keep livestock in, there is a reality that things happen beyond any of our control. Trees on fences, trespassers leaving gates open or damaging fences, cattle being spooked, any number of situations can occur without knowledge of the livestock owner, even if they may inspect their boundary fences daily.

All of that is taken into consideration and the livestock owner is not considered negligent if a tree falls on a fence. This is specifically for the owner that has livestock out on a recurring basis & especially in this case where the owner was notified. Essentially the equivalent of not having your dog vaccinated for rabies when he has a tendency to chase the mailman.

 

[bmoore87]

I can see having to pay for damages and a ticket but getting charged with manslaughter and up to 15 years seems extreme.

If we are going to imprison people for cattle being out repeatedly (3 times in 2 months not a good thing but many that have more out) then what about when young calves slip through the fence whenever they want in the spring most people just ignore them cause they go back in? Or what about pets? I dont think there are many people that live in the country that have their dog on a leash/ kennel what about when they are on the road and cause an accident should their owner get 15 years. Just saying this is getting a little out of hand.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I guess I will add my :2cents: This can be a "grey" area. But here's how I feel. 1) There's a huge difference between a dog/housecat and a 1200# cow/2000# bull. 2) I keep my cows in. (I know there are always things like fallen trees, etc) 3) This fellows bull had been out numerous times in the last six weeks, not just once or twice *(assuming the article is correct) 4) It doesn't appear he was too worried about getting the bull back *(again, assuming the article is correct.) 5) If it were my wife or kids that had lost their life because of an accident caused by a bull that had repeatedly gotten out of his pasture and was roaming the highway while the owner, who had been notified of this loose bull, was at home peacefully sleeping away rather than doing something to locate the bull or provide some form of preventative measures...... Then I would want more than a ticket and damages. I'm not sure how I would react. It would depend on numerous facts. I don't know all the details of this case, except what was stated in the article. I can't say that a manslaughter charge is warranted bc I just don't know. I will agree that even if it is warranted that it potentially sets a dangerous precedent. Tragic accident that could have easily been avoided.

 

[Jogeephus]

I'm not a fan of lawsuits or government intrusion but frequently getting out is not an accident its negligence. I had a neighbor who got into the cattle business before he finished fencing his land. He had two fences for over a year. TWO. A square has four sides. I don't think this fella knows this. Not for over a year anyway.

 

[Williamsv]

I can see no excuse for this accident. The man should have gotten on up and got his bull back in the pasture. Then got to work on his fence. I sold a good bull a few years ago because he kept finding a way to get out and get with my cousin's bull to fight. I did not want him on the road to cause an accident.
We try as hard as we can to keep the fences up, but occasionally a calf will get out. As soon as we get a call from a friend,who lives close to the farm telling us one is out, we go as fast as we can and get it back in. Then try to find where it got out and repair the fence immediately.
I would hate to know that someone was killed because one of my cows was out. Yes, there are times that they get out and we cannot help it, but when it happens over and over there is no excuse for it but negligence.

 

[Ky hills]

As a livestock owner one of if not my biggest worries/fears is cattle getting out on the road. I go to great lengths to try and keep them in the field. I try to have fences kept in good condition, and do not usually keep bulls past a couple years of age.
It always amazes me to see some of the fences around the area, I would be worried all the time. I know that there are some folks that don't take it as seriously as they should, but I would be reluctant to push for much legal responsibility because lines tend to get blurred and a lot of folks wouldn't understand that sometimes under the best of conditions, accidents happen.
Just a few weeks ago, I sold a good bull that had started going through an interior fence, I saw how easily he did, and how obsessed he was with going through so I didn't want to chance him going through a perimeter fence.

 

[Nesikep]

If it's a perpetual problem, I agree with it, but not if it's a rare occasion.. that happens to anyone

 

[Commercialfarmer]

If it is true that the guy was notified of the animal being loose, and did not act on the information, then I'd think hard about voting to convict him of negligence as well. It would be difficult to get up, get around, look for an animal and then make it back to bed in 15 minutes which supposedly is when the accident happened.

But I also don't think you can practically build a fence that will hold a bull or cow that has their mind made up to get out. There's a reason that perimeter fences are built like perimeter fences and working facilities are built like working facilities.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

If it's a perpetual problem, I agree with it, but not if it's a rare occasion.. that happens to anyone

Had something similar a few years ago. Missed catching a steer on a place with a lot of brush. Finally caught him up and moved over with a bunch of old cows so he could be sold later that week. He went over two good 5 wire fences and was headed back to the original pasture. Came upon a highway between them and apparently started down it. Got a call about a black calf being out- person couldn't tell a brand. Started that way just in case, and just before arrived a semi had caught him dead center of his grill. Bad deal.

My understanding is that if the fences had been inadequate or the calf had been a repeat offender, it would be our liability. The way it was, it was just an accident. Trucking company took their loss and we took ours.

Had someone called and we not acted upon the information, I think that "should" put us in a different set of circumstances.

 

[bmoore87]

I guess I will add my :2cents: This can be a "grey" area. But here's how I feel. 1) There's a huge difference between a dog/housecat and a 1200# cow/2000# bull. .

The size of the animal shouldnt matter, most crashes like this are caused by someone swerving to miss something and hiting another vehicle or going in the ditch, ect. I would bet pets is alot more common cause of fatal accidents than a bulls out on the road. If you are going to charge someone with manslaughter for one why not the other. Like you said it sets a bad precedent when we charge for one then why not the others if you know they are out.

We have good 5 and 6 wire barbed fences for the most part anymore but it amazes me that we will still have cattle out serveral times through the year sometimes due to nature(or people planting their corn to close to the fence) but other times due to cattle pushing on the fence or calves slipping through it.

Would agree that unless he has a small lot that 15 mins to go outside and check for cattle out is pretty weak. But I have gone out and looked at night when have gotten a call and couldnt find the animals and ended up going home to bed because their was no way you were going to find them without it being light out.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm not a fan of lawsuits or government intrusion but frequently getting out is not an accident its negligence. I had a neighbor who got into the cattle business before he finished fencing his land. He had two fences for over a year. TWO. A square has four sides. I don't think this fella knows this. Not for over a year anyway.

Each states laws are different here the negligence is what will get you nailed.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Bmoore87 I u derstamd what you are saying. But it respectfully disagree. If a driver swerves to miss a dog or cat then IMO that's driver error. If they are facing a 2000# bull well..... That's a bad deal.

But I also see your reasoning. Just a terrible accident resulting from apparent negligence that could have been prevented had the owner sold the bull or made a better effort to prevent this.

 

[Jogeephus]

I don't know if this is common practice elsewhere but here the sheriff's department keeps a record of whose cattle gets on the highway. In my case, I got at least 20 calls in one year but they were never my cattle but my neighbors. When I learned of their record keeping I went out of my way to have this corrected because had one of my cows got on the highway and hurt someone it wouldn't have taken much of an attorney to make a case of negligence on my part. Just something we all need to be aware of.

 

[Brute 23]

In the specific case of the article, I think he is liable. There is no excuse for checking your pasture and going back to sleep.

We have all had cattle get out. I had 2 cows that I moved from one place to another jump the edge of the cattle guard and start heading back where they came from. They were like 2 miles down the road before some one called them in to their pasture.

FYI, keep yalls dogs contained also. Coyotes get the blame for a lot of those "lazy" farm dog's work.

I remember when I was going back and forth to Waco all the time one night I came across a red, probably #700, steer standing the the highway. I came over a hill and it turns down and to the right. He was standing on the shoulder and I caught a glance if him in the edge of my headlights as I went by. I spun around and pushed him off the road. I sat there for 30 min waiting for the Sheriff's Dept. The land owner and officer got there at the same time. There was not way I could drive off knowing that steer was loose in the ditch.