Just bought the farm, 12 years before I retire...

[RollaMo]

Hello everyone, I've been a regular reader of these posts for quite some time, all the while dreaming of buying some land to retire to and start up a farm.

Well, with my wife's blessing, we are currently buying some property that we hope to retire to in about 12 to 15 years. So that dream came true a little sooner than I thought, although I'm not complaining at all!

The only downside is that we currently live in Thailand, and will be overseas for the next 12 years! We only get back home to Missouri once a year, and it's for about a month at a time. However, we will have 12 years to plan out and develop the property to give us the best possible chance of being successful at farming.

Our biggest concern right now is having the land taken care of for the next 12 years. This would lead me to believe that leasing the property would be the best option. It has about 250 acres of pasture that is fenced and cross fenced, and it has a current lease on it for $1000/year for about 25 cows, but that will end once we close on the property at the end of the year. Although we do have the option to renew the lease.

I read through a link that dun posted regarding lease costs, and if I read it right, for Missouri it's around $7/cow/month or $20/acre/year, so the $1000/year seems a little low. Does this sound right or am I way off base?

Also, are there any tax advantages for owning & leasing the land? Once we sold our home & moved to Bangkok, we lost out on the interest deductions, so we are looking for any help on taxes that we can get.

I still have a LOT of questions still to ask, but at least I have 12 years to get them all answered!

Any comments, suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Brute 23]

I would maybe look into at hiring a hand to take care of the place (may not be an option in that area) over leasing.

Here you can get an all-out cowboy/ hand for $2K a month and that is to take care of 1K-2K ac. Also, if you can find day hands or some one in the area that is full time on cattle already(retired, what ever). It probably wouldn't be too hard to bribe them to take care of your cattle also.

Most people are doing it because they enjoy cattle... they already know they aren't going to get rich. Good facilities and such along with incentives (maybe giving them X% of the yearly earnings) also help in attracting people.

250ac and only 25 head... good grass and cross fenced seems low. IF you could get those head numbers up it would justify the helper alot more.

If your lucky you can get the place to self-sustaine until you are ready to come back. Even if it costs you a little every year,,, the end result would be worth it.

 

[dun]

The rent/lease rates vary a great deal by area. How close is the land to Lake Spring? I know one farmer in that area that runs a pretty large (mostly) Hereford farm. He's at least the second generation and may even be the third to be farming around there. His and runs from prety good to pretty poor.

 

[dun]

250ac and only 25 head... good grass and cross fenced seems low.

Depends on the terrain. Most of the folks I deal with around here think in terms of how many head a place can sustain all year not just for the x number of months of typical grazing. Most pastures are fescue and the growth almost stops from mid june through the end of august, sometimes into mid october. If you over graze it early you have to feed hay in the summer.

 

[Brute 23]

250ac and only 25 head... good grass and cross fenced seems low.

Depends on the terrain. Most of the folks I deal with around here think in terms of how many head a place can sustain all year not just for the x number of months of typical grazing. Most pastures are fescue and the growth almost stops from mid june through the end of august, sometimes into mid october. If you over graze it early you have to feed hay in the summer.

Isn't that how the majority of calf cow operations think? :lol:

I knew it would vary with terrain. That is why the next sentense you left out of the quote says "IF you can get those head numbers up..." Meaning... it may require more fields, better grass, ect... not necessarily just shoving more cattle in the same space. ;-) Pretty general statement that I think most will agree with.

Side note... 250 ac of fescue can only hold 25 head? :shock: Seems hard to make money on that deal.

 

[dun]

Most of the folks I deal with around here think in terms of how many head a place can sustain all year not just for the x number of months of typical grazing.[/b] Most pastures are fescue and the growth almost stops from mid june through the end of august, sometimes into mid october. If you over graze it early you have to feed hay in the summer.

Isn't that how the majority of calf cow operations think? :lol:

[/quote]

From the impression I've gotten from these boards it isn;t. Seens like most people plan on feeding hay for 4-5 months of the year. We make arrangments to do it but in most years we'll only have to feed for a momth and mpost of that depends on fall moisture and winter snow/ice.
Year before last we started feeding hay in June, stopped in october and started again in feb and stopped mid march.

 

[Brute 23]

Most of the folks I deal with around here think in terms of how many head a place can sustain all year not just for the x number of months of typical grazing.[/b] Most pastures are fescue and the growth almost stops from mid june through the end of august, sometimes into mid october. If you over graze it early you have to feed hay in the summer.

Isn't that how the majority of calf cow operations think? :lol:

[From the impression I've gotten from these boards it isn;t. Seens like most people plan on feeding hay for 4-5 months of the year. We make arrangments to do it but in most years we'll only have to feed for a momth and mpost of that depends on fall moisture and winter snow/ice.
Year before last we started feeding hay in June, stopped in october and started again in feb and stopped mid march.

Good point... ;-) I see what you are saying.

 

[dun]

Most of the folks I deal with around here think in terms of how many head a place can sustain all year not just for the x number of months of typical grazing.[/b] Most pastures are fescue and the growth almost stops from mid june through the end of august, sometimes into mid october. If you over graze it early you have to feed hay in the summer.

Isn't that how the majority of calf cow operations think? :lol:

[From the impression I've gotten from these boards it isn;t. Seens like most people plan on feeding hay for 4-5 months of the year. We make arrangments to do it but in most years we'll only have to feed for a momth and mpost of that depends on fall moisture and winter snow/ice.
Year before last we started feeding hay in June, stopped in october and started again in feb and stopped mid march.

Good point... ;-) I see what you are saying.

The terrain part deals with some of the areas around hre anbout the only part thatis useacle is either bottoms or rige tops. Very few bottoms, lots of rige tops that are3 only a couple of hundred yards wide. If the sides of the ridges have been cleared they generally don;t grow a whole lot becuase they're so eroded. If the ridge slopes are gentle you can raise some pretty good grass, but they're the first to dry up and quit growing. It can be a pretty big challenge to raise decent grass in this environment, particulalry when you're an absenty landlord.

 

[Bluestem]

I would consider how the current renter is caring for the land. If you start pushing the price up the person renting is going to have to push the land harder. You don't want rocks and weeds twelve years from now. You want a caretaker not a high paying renter.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Interesting plan!

Don't want to be a "party pooper" but trying to manage farm/ranch property in USA from another Country is a problem waiting for time and place to happen. Would be essential to have a 100% reliable and dependable "manager" to manage the place (if there IS such a person). Many, many issues involved.

Additionally, if livestock are involved problems only multiply. Even when an owner/manager lives on the property are always unforeseen events that happen: livestock management, fence issues, problems at sudden uexpected times, pasture management, neighbor issues, livestock getting out, neighbor's livestock getting in, etc. Then, there is the expense of numerous phone calls from a foreign country, worry about how things are going with one's property and the manager, etc.

Just more things to think about...

 

[backhoeboogie]

RollaMo, If you go the lease route, I'd put some minimal fertilizer restrictions in the lease agreement. Fertilizer is a huge expense. Make sure your tennants apply it. Good pasture can be ruined.

 

[Gate Opener]

If the fella who is leasing it now is taking good care of the land, fences and such I would let him go ahead and keep leasing it. It is better to have someone in there you know will take care of it. You might be able to get more from someone else but you don't know if they will take the same care. They might come in and ruin the place.

You might try talking to the people who you are buying from and ask them if they have had any problems with the guy who is leasing it now. They may or may not tell you.

 

[1848]

What is the land being used for now?

 

[Beef11]

You need to buy a place in Idaho, that way i could run it for you. I could use the extra grass and would manage the place for the long haul. Missouri is just a bit to far for me to go to help you out. sorry. If you have any questions that i know the answer to i'll sure chime in. Good luck

 

[George Monk]

RollaMo
You have several options to look at. Leasing is one way. Share cropping is another. It may be that there are a couople of different farmers involved. One for the crop land, another for the grass. One would be easiest.
We do alot of share cropping. I work hard to make the land better than when I started farming it. However there are many that don't so be careful.
If the land is near Boonville I would be very interested.
George

 

[stocky]

It all depends on the land. There is alot of land around Rolla that takes 4-5 acres per cow. There is some that will take 2 acres per cow. The 25 cows seems low, but there are alot of variances, like soil quality, how good is the stand of grass, no fertilize makes a huge difference. It sounds like the lease option is best. You are not going to pay for the interest on the farm with the lease. You would be smart to very conservative with the lease price and get someone you can trust to treat the land right for you and to take care of things. You will not be there, you will need it to be cared for properly and you can figure that has value over and above the lease price. I wouldnt hire a manager to manage your cattle because you dont have enough land to make that pay and you will have to invest alot more money and you will be having to deal with more costs for upkeep and more problems. Just get someone who will take good care of it at a price you can both live with

 

[itsbh]

when you get time send me an email at ([email protected]) thanks bob