Judging........

[Ryan]

Okay, so i'm judging a show in late August. It'll be a pretty good size show. I am doing the youth show... heifers, bulls, steers, and showmanship. My first time to ever judge, ever. Well i did one judging contest in h.s. on the livestock team, and was on the Meat Judging team at A&M for awhile, but never went to any competitions.

I've been showing forever, and have seen many many many judges. But just looking for other opinions.

So, any tips, hints or ideas. What you like from good judges, what you don't like from judges you dont care for? Anyone here that has judged, or judges, shows have any advice.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Moocow11]

try to be consitant. when you are judging and as soon as you see a calf that you dont like dont go and sort it off right off the bat. go and look at the others and then go and sort it and the next few off.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Be confident and consistent. I've had a judge who had neither of these and I do not have a lot of respect for him as a judge.

 

[Ryan]

What is your definition of "consistent"?

I know what it means to me, but i'll let others answer before I say what it means to me.

 

[Keren]

Moocow and Cowgirl hit the nail on the head. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for. We breed a very specific 'type' and obviously not every judge is going to like that 'type'. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for, as long as he is CONSISTENT. By that I mean, if he is selecting females looking primarily at fertility, femininity etc then stick to that; conversely if he is looking for very beefy females that would make good steers, then consistently pick out those animals - dont chop and change. I have seen many judges pick out very different animals as they go through the classes, and ultimately they create a very difficult situation for themselves when they get to their champion lineup and they have four animals of completely different types. Decide what traits you believe are most important, and keep the same amount of weighting on those traits ie take three main groups of traits structure, reproductive ability and meat characteristics, if you think the emphasis should be (just a random example) 50%:25%:25% then keep it this way; dont place an animal in the first class because of its structure and then place an animal in the next class by its meat characteristics.

The other thing that really gets my respect (or disrespect) is a confident, concise explanation of your reasons. If a judge can clearly and logically explain to the exhibitors and audience why 1st placed over 2nd, 2nd over 3rd and so on, it doesnt matter where you have put them.

Good luck and remember: a lot of breeders will come to the show to judge the judge - your job is to judge the cattle.

 

[r and s peckman]

When the animals come into the ring, you are going to know which ones are the best. But really look at each one when they line up. Talk to each kid and say something positive. That will mean alot to them. That is better than when they come out of the ring and say, that judge didn't even look at mine. Good luck and remember who you are doing this for.

 

[Moocow11]

go through the barn before the show and look at them all see what you are working with. now being consistant doesnt mean you will pick steers that look like steers and heifers that look like steers. say you have 5 classes of market heifers. choose the heifers that will do good on the hook( ie MARKET class)

and then for breeding heifers go and pick out the ones that have that look, good build, nice and fenimane. basicly the heifer you would want to build a herd around.

 

[farmwife]

go through the barn before the show and look at them all see what you are working with. now being consistant doesnt mean you will pick steers that look like steers and heifers that look like steers. say you have 5 classes of market heifers. choose the heifers that will do good on the hook( ie MARKET class)

and then for breeding heifers go and pick out the ones that have that look, good build, nice and fenimane. basicly the heifer you would want to build a herd around.

DON'T go through the barn before the show. The last thing I want to see is the judge walk through the barn and run in to someone he knows, which will set him up for "he knows them and that's why he picked them Champion". If you have been showing for a long time as you said you have, the chances of knowing someone in the barn is pretty high. Don't set yourself up for failure the first time out of the box.

 

[farmwife]

What is your definition of "consistent"?

I know what it means to me, but i'll let others answer before I say what it means to me.

Get in your mind's eye what you like and stick to it.

 

[yip]

if you are unsure about a placing - make it quick and get that class out of the ring. study long - study wrong.

and never use the phrase "these top 2 could be placed either way" ----- say why you placed 1 over 2.

be honest, fair, fast and consistent.

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Moocow and Cowgirl hit the nail on the head. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for. We breed a very specific 'type' and obviously not every judge is going to like that 'type'. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for, as long as he is CONSISTENT. By that I mean, if he is selecting females looking primarily at fertility, femininity etc then stick to that; conversely if he is looking for very beefy females that would make good steers, then consistently pick out those animals - dont chop and change. I have seen many judges pick out very different animals as they go through the classes, and ultimately they create a very difficult situation for themselves when they get to their champion lineup and they have four animals of completely different types. Decide what traits you believe are most important, and keep the same amount of weighting on those traits ie take three main groups of traits structure, reproductive ability and meat characteristics, if you think the emphasis should be (just a random example) 50%:25%:25% then keep it this way; dont place an animal in the first class because of its structure and then place an animal in the next class by its meat characteristics.

The other thing that really gets my respect (or disrespect) is a confident, concise explanation of your reasons. If a judge can clearly and logically explain to the exhibitors and audience why 1st placed over 2nd, 2nd over 3rd and so on, it doesnt matter where you have put them.

Good luck and remember: a lot of breeders will come to the show to judge the judge - your job is to judge the cattle.

Amen. Decide what you are looking for and stick to it.

DO NOT go in the barn first!

 

[*Cowgirl*]

Moocow and Cowgirl hit the nail on the head. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for. We breed a very specific 'type' and obviously not every judge is going to like that 'type'. I dont mind what 'type' of animals a judge is looking for, as long as he is CONSISTENT. By that I mean, if he is selecting females looking primarily at fertility, femininity etc then stick to that; conversely if he is looking for very beefy females that would make good steers, then consistently pick out those animals - dont chop and change. I have seen many judges pick out very different animals as they go through the classes, and ultimately they create a very difficult situation for themselves when they get to their champion lineup and they have four animals of completely different types. Decide what traits you believe are most important, and keep the same amount of weighting on those traits ie take three main groups of traits structure, reproductive ability and meat characteristics, if you think the emphasis should be (just a random example) 50%:25%:25% then keep it this way; dont place an animal in the first class because of its structure and then place an animal in the next class by its meat characteristics.

The other thing that really gets my respect (or disrespect) is a confident, concise explanation of your reasons. If a judge can clearly and logically explain to the exhibitors and audience why 1st placed over 2nd, 2nd over 3rd and so on, it doesnt matter where you have put them.

Good luck and remember: a lot of breeders will come to the show to judge the judge - your job is to judge the cattle.

Amen. Decide what you are looking for and stick to it.

DO NOT go in the barn first!

 

[Ryan]

I would never go through the barn before the show. That is probably one of the worst things a judge could do before the show. I know most everyone that will be showing in the show, so I will already have to be on top of my game just to make sure nobody thinks I play any favorites (although, if you really know me, I would never do that).

Thanks for the advice, tips, hints, etc... I know what I like in a judge, but its always good to hear other peoples' perspectives.

As far as consistency goes... My ideas of consistency aren't always the same as others. I'll see a judge that might pick the classes all day from heaviest to lightest, biggest frame to smallest, prettiest to ugliest, or whatever to whatever and then the people will say "Atleast he was consistent"... but when you think about it, anyone could have picked them like that. There is one judge that I really like, and he is one of the best at having a championship line-up and have them all not of the exact same "type". He says that just because the animals are of a different "type and kind'' doesn't mean they were not the best in their respective classes. I've seen judges but the 2nd best animal in the class in 3rd, because the animal that did get 2nd more closesly matched the "type" of the 1st place animal, eventhough it was not the 2nd best animal in the class. Sometimes I think that what most people consider consistency is overrated. The best animal is the best animal, regardless of type. Although, I do hope i can consistently place the animals throughout the day, from number 1 all the way down and look like i know what i'm doing, and have it make sense to people.

Keep the advice, tips, thoughts coming...

Ryan

 

[farmwife]

I would never go through the barn before the show. That is probably one of the worst things a judge could do before the show. I know most everyone that will be showing in the show, so I will already have to be on top of my game just to make sure nobody thinks I play any favorites (although, if you really know me, I would never do that).

Thanks for the advice, tips, hints, etc... I know what I like in a judge, but its always good to hear other peoples' perspectives.

As far as consistency goes... My ideas of consistency aren't always the same as others. I'll see a judge that might pick the classes all day from heaviest to lightest, biggest frame to smallest, prettiest to ugliest, or whatever to whatever and then the people will say "Atleast he was consistent"... but when you think about it, anyone could have picked them like that. There is one judge that I really like, and he is one of the best at having a championship line-up and have them all not of the exact same "type". He says that just because the animals are of a different "type and kind'' doesn't mean they were not the best in their respective classes. I've seen judges but the 2nd best animal in the class in 3rd, because the animal that did get 2nd more closesly matched the "type" of the 1st place animal, eventhough it was not the 2nd best animal in the class. Sometimes I think that what most people consider consistency is overrated. The best animal is the best animal, regardless of type. Although, I do hope i can consistently place the animals throughout the day, from number 1 all the way down and look like i know what i'm doing, and have it make sense to people.

Keep the advice, tips, thoughts coming...

Ryan

I guess I disagree somewhat with the "type" thing. I just don't believe that you can pick one type to win and then go complete to the opposite end of the spectrum to get the 2nd best animal. Of course, at small shows sometimes it's more difficult to stick with type; I understand this dilemma. However, nothing's worse than for a deep-sided, broody, feminine heifer to top the class followed by a heavy muscled, shallow made, heavy shouldered heifer.

The main thing is to place'em, have a reason for it, and be satisifed with your selection.

Good luck!! Let us know how it goes.

 

[Ryan]

Do ya'll prefer if a judge places from top to bottom or bottom to top?

Personally, I always enjoyed bottom to top, adds some excitement and drama.

 

[Ryan]

I guess I disagree somewhat with the "type" thing. I just don't believe that you can pick one type to win and then go complete to the opposite end of the spectrum to get the 2nd best animal. Of course, at small shows sometimes it's more difficult to stick with type; I understand this dilemma. However, nothing's worse than for a deep-sided, broody, feminine heifer to top the class followed by a heavy muscled, shallow made, heavy shouldered heifer.

The main thing is to place'em, have a reason for it, and be satisifed with your selection.

Good luck!! Let us know how it goes.

I do agree that it usually doesn't look good with total opposites are 1st and 2nd. But like you said, sometimes in a small show it gets tough. I guess what I really mean is, the two at the top of the class should put the most good things together with minimal faults, and sometimes the animals that do that best aren't of the same type.

Ryan

 

[richburg102]

Do ya'll prefer if a judge places from top to bottom or bottom to top?

Personally, I always enjoyed bottom to top, adds some excitement and drama.

when i am in the showring i really dont care which way the judge picks them........but if i was the judge i would have to go bottom to top because you can always find the worst animals in the bunch and then when you get to your top animals in the class it will make it a whole lot easier to break them down and really study what you are working with

and yes i have to agree always be consitent dont pick steery club calf heifers all day then come into you champion drive talking about wanting a more cowy type heifer that would work best in your pasture.

NEVER NEVER EVER go throught then barn it doesnt matter if you know someone or you dont it might put you in a bad light

and remember you are judging the cattle not who is holding the lead

good luck

 

[farmwife]

I guess I disagree somewhat with the "type" thing. I just don't believe that you can pick one type to win and then go complete to the opposite end of the spectrum to get the 2nd best animal. Of course, at small shows sometimes it's more difficult to stick with type; I understand this dilemma. However, nothing's worse than for a deep-sided, broody, feminine heifer to top the class followed by a heavy muscled, shallow made, heavy shouldered heifer.

The main thing is to place'em, have a reason for it, and be satisifed with your selection.

Good luck!! Let us know how it goes.

I do agree that it usually doesn't look good with total opposites are 1st and 2nd. But like you said, sometimes in a small show it gets tough. I guess what I really mean is, the two at the top of the class should put the most good things together with minimal faults, and sometimes the animals that do that best aren't of the same type.

Ryan

You're right. As for the bottom to top or top to bottom question. I do prefer the bottom to top for the excitement, plus you really get to see some good showmanship as you near the top of the class. However, the con of bottom to top is that it puts some pressure on the judge. You have to be right throughout. Whereas if you got top to bottom, if you make a mistake between 9th and 10th place it's not that big of a deal.

Also, don't be afraid to re-examine the top end of the class -- say the top 3-5 animals. And don't be afraid to change your mind if it's for the right reasons.

 

[farmwife]

Do ya'll prefer if a judge places from top to bottom or bottom to top?

Personally, I always enjoyed bottom to top, adds some excitement and drama.

when i am in the showring i really dont care which way the judge picks them........but if i was the judge i would have to go bottom to top because you can always find the worst animals in the bunch and then when you get to your top animals in the class it will make it a whole lot easier to break them down and really study what you are working with

and yes i have to agree always be consitent dont pick steery club calf heifers all day then come into you champion drive talking about wanting a more cowy type heifer that would work best in your pasture.

NEVER NEVER EVER go throught then barn it doesnt matter if you know someone or you dont it might put you in a bad light

and remember you are judging the cattle not who is holding the lead

good luck

Good advice Richburg

 

[farmwife]

Judging a Longhorn show? All breed show?

If you are judging a Longhorn show, I'd say you have ample experience for the job. If, however, you're judging an all breed show, I would definitely do some homework. Sure the characteristics are the same with all breeds -- capacity, femininity, thickness, structural correctness, etc., however what constitutes exceptional varies from breed to breed.

I just took a quick look at your website, and your cattle compared to mine look "poor". By poor, I mean thin. Of course, I'm not downing your cattle. My point is that if I judge your cattle based on what is exceptional in the Hereford breed, I would find only well-below average cattle.

You need to do your homework. Good luck!!