I had a vet come out today to check a calf that was previously treated by another vet, this calf had a swelled joint in his back leg, they both said the same thing on infection but the second vet said if i waited 2 more days he would have been dead, they said it was a secondary infection from the E.coli , Has anyone else had this? what was the outcome?
joint infection Update
- Thread starter mystery74
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Is it a newborn calf? My dad had a week old limi calf that had a swollen back leg (joint) thought perhaps mom had stepped on it. Then his front leg was swollen. Took him to the vet..had a navel infection! He's 'bout 3 months old now. Still limps on his back leg, but eats and seems to be healthy otherwise. The vet drained the joints and injected them with something??? Gave him a shot and drew up another shot for us to give him in 7 days.
cowvet
Well-known member
Joint infections - newborn animals - I would be looking firstly at colostrum intake not being sufficient as one of the biggest risk factors of it occuring. Treatment is antibiotics, but prevention may be easier than trying to cure a problem once it occurs.
mystery74
Well-known member
:help: update and still need some major help. The vet did say maybe naval infection but this joint infection was a secondary infection from the E. coli infection he took 6 weeks to get over, still cottage cheese "stuff" coming from back leg, however swelling is down. anitibiotics are done but now he wont stand on the leg, this has also been
brought up that this calf might be mentally retarded since we have to hand feed him. he is 6 weeks old and skin and bones, after the discussion with my husband we have made the choice of no more vet calls but what in the world can i do for him, i am not familiar with vitamins and thought maybe that would boost him up enough that he would start gaining weight, he is energetic and has potential, the vitamins i have are vitamin a and D and vitamin b complex? will any of these help him? He is over E.coli and I thought maybe the antibiotics made him not want to eat well.
As for the colostrum, we bought this calf from a guy we had never dealt with and he said he had colostrum but i doubt it,he has not had a good start in life but so far he made it through the worse. anyone have any suggestions that i could at least try, and yes i was already told to shoot it, but i didnt have the heart to tell my 12 year old daughter we would have to shoot her calf, she has been out there with me every day , many hours helping doctor this little guy up. :help:
brought up that this calf might be mentally retarded since we have to hand feed him. he is 6 weeks old and skin and bones, after the discussion with my husband we have made the choice of no more vet calls but what in the world can i do for him, i am not familiar with vitamins and thought maybe that would boost him up enough that he would start gaining weight, he is energetic and has potential, the vitamins i have are vitamin a and D and vitamin b complex? will any of these help him? He is over E.coli and I thought maybe the antibiotics made him not want to eat well.
As for the colostrum, we bought this calf from a guy we had never dealt with and he said he had colostrum but i doubt it,he has not had a good start in life but so far he made it through the worse. anyone have any suggestions that i could at least try, and yes i was already told to shoot it, but i didnt have the heart to tell my 12 year old daughter we would have to shoot her calf, she has been out there with me every day , many hours helping doctor this little guy up. :help:
Get your 12 year old another calf, one that is healthy. She's not too young to learn that sometimes doing the right thing is painfull and unpleasent. We are above the lower animals because we know (or should know) when it's time to end what is never going to turn out to be a positive experience. A simple gunshot and burial would in my opinion be the right thing.
dun
dun
Victoria
Well-known member
I'm sorry I really don't understand this. What does your vet say? Does he think there is any hope for this calf or has he already suggested putting him down? This has been going on for six weeks and the calf still has puss coming out and won't stand on it! You have a starving calf who is retarded and can't stand up. Your daughter has grown an attachment to him. Sounds like a good young lady that wants to take care of an animal and that is great, you brought her up well. Now it is time to teach her phase two of taking care of an animal. Sometimes it is kinder to the animal to end it's suffering. When we take care of animals our own needs do not come first. Teach your daughter how to be a responsble animal owner. Sometimes it is painful but when it is over do as dun suggested and get her a healthy heifer calf to fall in love with.
So no more vet because you don't want to put more money into the animal, instead you are going to sit around and watch it get thinner and weaker until it finally dies. Sounds like a much better thing to teach your daughter than just ending the calf's life quickly either with a bullet or one last vet bill. Watching a calf that she cares about in pain everyday is much harsher than watching it's suffering finally end.
So no more vet because you don't want to put more money into the animal, instead you are going to sit around and watch it get thinner and weaker until it finally dies. Sounds like a much better thing to teach your daughter than just ending the calf's life quickly either with a bullet or one last vet bill. Watching a calf that she cares about in pain everyday is much harsher than watching it's suffering finally end.
mystery74
Well-known member
The calf had chronic diarrehea for six weeks due to e.coli, then he just got this joint infection had for 7 days, vet said he should do just fine, we had several test on him everything is checking out ok, we have spent $400 on him in six weeks, the puss is still coming out this morning and we keep treating it, I didnt know if anyone else out there used pneumoni-v before for their infections, it has several different antibiotics in it, i was hoping someone would tell me that this antibiotic would cause weight loss. My daughter is ok with the fact that we will probably have to put him down now, I dont think he is suffereing, he eats his milk just fine , I just called the vet to inform him that it didnt work and see what he suggests without him coming out.
mystery74
Well-known member
yeah its probably time to put him down, my vet (thank god we really know each other) is coming out for her lunch, for free . we are then going to make the decision what should be done with him, i told her no more money and i am sick of seeing him like this , i am sick and tired of one infection after another. so maybe by later tonigh he will be put down
mystery74
Well-known member
The vet said that this calf would always be lame on his back leg but we should be able to finish him out flor slaughter, he still has an infected leg, i have put him on anitbiotics just because of the constant ordeal of having to go a squeeze the pus out. He is able to get up and walk over to eat, he sometimes falls on his front joints and just kind of stands there like that, is there something we may be missing here, the lastest opinions are that he is still weak from all the laying around and fighting this infections that he needs to get up and re learn to stand , he also has a huge open front knee the opinion of this was a bed sore. other than the stiffness and the pus he is alert, eating and gaining weight , no fever nothing else. what my question is maybe everyone is just missing the diagnosis on him and we are not treating him for the right thing.
cowvet
Well-known member
The infection in the joint is the obvious one that you can see. I would also suspect that he has abscesses elsewhere - liver, lungs etc. When a calf gets navel ill the bacteria seed out around the body via the bloodstream - when they get to the joints it is obvious there is a problem there - it is the internal organs with problems that are the tricky ones!
After reading your posts M74 and the replies i tend to agree with navel ill. The joint problems fit the bill.
We had one where the navel ill got real bad. It got into the joints
got a go got a chicken stuck between the grainery and it's fence will finish later
We had one where the navel ill got real bad. It got into the joints
got a go got a chicken stuck between the grainery and it's fence will finish later
silly chicken
any how, once we cleared up the navel th joints were still pretty bad. We treated with nuflor and predef. We kept him until october maybe november. His joints were still bad Every time we treated he would improve and at the end of the cycle of treatment he would get bad again. When the vet came out to preg check in the fall she said to put him down. the sore joints caused him pain and it was cruel to keep him alive. We did everything we could and more just like you.
Because the joints were still enlarged she did not recommend eating him even though he long past withdrawl times.
The vet was right, he was in pain. If a person sympathetic to animal right had been on the yard any time during this calf's life we could have been charged with cruelty.
Just like you we try everything to the point of over trying to save the animals we love...but sometimes we have to make the hard call in the best interest of animal welfare.
If you decide to treat him still, make sure you are using an anti inflamitory to help with the swelling, and pain.
oh yeah this calf had a healthy apetite and no fever. weighed out pretty good to just one of those things that happens in a farmer's or farmer's wife's life
Good luck
any how, once we cleared up the navel th joints were still pretty bad. We treated with nuflor and predef. We kept him until october maybe november. His joints were still bad Every time we treated he would improve and at the end of the cycle of treatment he would get bad again. When the vet came out to preg check in the fall she said to put him down. the sore joints caused him pain and it was cruel to keep him alive. We did everything we could and more just like you.
Because the joints were still enlarged she did not recommend eating him even though he long past withdrawl times.
The vet was right, he was in pain. If a person sympathetic to animal right had been on the yard any time during this calf's life we could have been charged with cruelty.
Just like you we try everything to the point of over trying to save the animals we love...but sometimes we have to make the hard call in the best interest of animal welfare.
If you decide to treat him still, make sure you are using an anti inflamitory to help with the swelling, and pain.
oh yeah this calf had a healthy apetite and no fever. weighed out pretty good to just one of those things that happens in a farmer's or farmer's wife's life
Good luck
Victoria
Well-known member
Was it really 2 weeks before you could get the vet to come out and look at the calf again? (4-19)
Why is this calf still alive? The vet may have said you could finish him out but my guess is because he knows how opposed you are to putting him down. You have an animal that now falls when he is walking on to his front knee joints and one of them is split open? That sounds painful. So basically you have a calf that has been living in pain and not improving for 8 weeks. Why is this calf still alive? Put him out of his misery all ready!
Why is this calf still alive? The vet may have said you could finish him out but my guess is because he knows how opposed you are to putting him down. You have an animal that now falls when he is walking on to his front knee joints and one of them is split open? That sounds painful. So basically you have a calf that has been living in pain and not improving for 8 weeks. Why is this calf still alive? Put him out of his misery all ready!
I've been in your shoes, walked that path, worn that t-shirt, and I'll be frank with you -- it's time to put that calf down. Even past time for the deed to be done.
When they stop using the leg, you've lost the battle, no matter how alert and bright-eyed they seem. If you have an infection that's gone on this long, chances are it is never going to clear up. Been there done that. Cut your losses now, teach your daughter what the right thing to do is -- it's selfish to keep messing with an animal like that, hoping they'll recover at some point. There are animals that can get better and there are animals that will not get better, and it's important to learn to recognize the difference. I'm working at a small animal vet clinic right now, and it'll turn your stomach to see some people who've never learned that lesson. They'll bring animals in that should have been PTS a long time ago, and they're too blind to see how the animal is suffering.
Shoot the calf or have the vet put it down.
When they stop using the leg, you've lost the battle, no matter how alert and bright-eyed they seem. If you have an infection that's gone on this long, chances are it is never going to clear up. Been there done that. Cut your losses now, teach your daughter what the right thing to do is -- it's selfish to keep messing with an animal like that, hoping they'll recover at some point. There are animals that can get better and there are animals that will not get better, and it's important to learn to recognize the difference. I'm working at a small animal vet clinic right now, and it'll turn your stomach to see some people who've never learned that lesson. They'll bring animals in that should have been PTS a long time ago, and they're too blind to see how the animal is suffering.
Shoot the calf or have the vet put it down.
Bez>
Well-known member
I agree with the M Maid - 25 cent solution is probably best here.
Bez>
Bez>
mystery74
Well-known member
To the last comment , I have kept the vet well informed along with numerous vets just stopping by , We had the vet out yesterday to dehorn the rest of the calves and the vet said, after examining him, he was overcoming this, the sore on his front leg was a "bedsore" from laying down so much, he gets up and walks around, eating fine , alert, drinking water, i asked the vet for his honest opinion and he said why on earth would i put a calf down that is just now getting over this, this infection was not a naval infection gone overlooked, it was a rare secondary infection from the 2 strains of E. coli, Sometimes i feel some people are to eager to jump the gun and put down an animal. I have stayed in close contact at all times with the vet. I am also not spending anymore money on this calf. Whatever we have in the cabinet he can have, right now he is on no medicine and is in no pain. He is not in any pain and this is not cruel, what would have been cruel would have been to put him down before he was ready,all he needed was a little extra time and alot of supportive care.
I understand everyone has a price limit but he is a fighter and he pulled through it.
I understand everyone has a price limit but he is a fighter and he pulled through it.
rockridgecattle
Well-known member
Glad your calf is pulling through. Sorry for the bad advice. Sometimes it's hard to know when it's not seen, and sometimes we just make plan dumb calls based on previous experience.
good luck with you calf and take care
Tammy
good luck with you calf and take care
Tammy
hillsdown
Well-known member
I can't believe you were able to nurse that calf back from a secondary infection.The fact that he overcame Ecoli is amazing in itself.The little guy needs a special name like Miracle.I have lost two this year do to secondary infections and despite doing everything humanly possible (and all the expensive meds) from having them in my house and staying up all night with them they still did not make it so all I can say is good job.Unfortunately they all can't be cured by that dedication sometimes no matter what you do it is never enough.
However you did teach your daughter to not give up on something too soon as they will surprise you.I guess he pulled through on lot's of love. ;-)
However you did teach your daughter to not give up on something too soon as they will surprise you.I guess he pulled through on lot's of love. ;-)
Victoria
Well-known member
I'm happy for you that you are satisfied all is well with the calf. Please understand that we don't see the calf only what you say.
One of the posts that really made me feel the calf should be put down is this one: yeah its probably time to put him down, my vet (thank god we really know each other) is coming out for her lunch, for free . we are then going to make the decision what should be done with him, i told her no more money and i am sick of seeing him like this , i am sick and tired of one infection after another. so maybe by later tonigh he will be put down
Your next post a couple weeks later didn't make him sound any better to me. I am one of the least eager to just put down an animal. If they can enjoy their life before they become food I tend to spend too much on them to do so. When I hear about a calf that has to have pus drained from his leg for weeks on end and is falling on his bed sores and the poster says they are done spending money on the animal I get a little nervous. I don't know you and there are a lot of abuse cases that start like that.
He is a calf, you are going to kill him eventually to eat him, I presume before he is old so therefore the majority of beef cattle get killed 'before they are ready". I wouldn't consider this cruel as you put it.
Anyhow, as I said I am happy for you that your calf will make it. Having seen a lot over the years this is not the norm but I hope he continues improving.
One of the posts that really made me feel the calf should be put down is this one: yeah its probably time to put him down, my vet (thank god we really know each other) is coming out for her lunch, for free . we are then going to make the decision what should be done with him, i told her no more money and i am sick of seeing him like this , i am sick and tired of one infection after another. so maybe by later tonigh he will be put down
Your next post a couple weeks later didn't make him sound any better to me. I am one of the least eager to just put down an animal. If they can enjoy their life before they become food I tend to spend too much on them to do so. When I hear about a calf that has to have pus drained from his leg for weeks on end and is falling on his bed sores and the poster says they are done spending money on the animal I get a little nervous. I don't know you and there are a lot of abuse cases that start like that.
He is a calf, you are going to kill him eventually to eat him, I presume before he is old so therefore the majority of beef cattle get killed 'before they are ready". I wouldn't consider this cruel as you put it.
Anyhow, as I said I am happy for you that your calf will make it. Having seen a lot over the years this is not the norm but I hope he continues improving.
