I've about had it
- Thread starter Nesikep
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I vicariously feel your pain, Nesi. My best friend is in a similar situation. She got her degree in Animal Science and has managed her fathers ranch ever since - except he micro manages her and refuses to fork over any "unnecessary" additional expense until a train wreck warrants, such as an outbreak of Lepto finally forced him to pay for vaccinations, etc. He also dangles a pretty big carrot but there are 3 other siblings, none of which has any interest in the ranch except for recreation and she & her husband couldn't afford to buy out the siblings.
It's obvious how much you know and love cattle, ag, machinery, etc. But you also need to love yourself. Sending best wishes.
It's obvious how much you know and love cattle, ag, machinery, etc. But you also need to love yourself. Sending best wishes.
Supa Dexta
Well-known member
So if the place is worth 1-2 mil what are you gonna do with it when they are gone? Its unlikely you'd sell it, You have no children or wife to leave it to. So just wait them out til you're 60? then live whatever last years you have struggling to make it work alone?
Realistically you need 300+ mother cows nowadays to make a living off them, anything less and you're fooling yourself. If you don't plan to sell the place for the money then you're only sticking your head in the sand going thru the day to day motions, tricking yourself you have freedom and are your own boss - which as you state isn't the case.
At 40 and single in 'the real world' many have already made their money and have a goal in sight for retirement, which in your case could have been buying a small farm and breeding what ever bull to whatever cow you wanted.
Realistically you need 300+ mother cows nowadays to make a living off them, anything less and you're fooling yourself. If you don't plan to sell the place for the money then you're only sticking your head in the sand going thru the day to day motions, tricking yourself you have freedom and are your own boss - which as you state isn't the case.
At 40 and single in 'the real world' many have already made their money and have a goal in sight for retirement, which in your case could have been buying a small farm and breeding what ever bull to whatever cow you wanted.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Sorry to hear about the tough situation Nesi. I know it hurts.
I think there is a lot of command and control style in ag, because that is what people experienced when they were growing up, and they never worked anywhere else.
In theory - - you all go through a farm/ranch transition process that starts with discussing goals and ends with completing some legal documents. There are lawyers who specialize in this, as well as some self help documents out on the web. Transition planning sounds logical but it threatens command and control...
I have found some ass holes will listen to a family lawyer when they will not talk nor listen to family members. So you meet privately with the lawyer at the start, and then he word smiths what needs to be done at follow up group meeting(s) in his office. If this does not work - - at least you all know where you stand and can move on.
I think there is a lot of command and control style in ag, because that is what people experienced when they were growing up, and they never worked anywhere else.
In theory - - you all go through a farm/ranch transition process that starts with discussing goals and ends with completing some legal documents. There are lawyers who specialize in this, as well as some self help documents out on the web. Transition planning sounds logical but it threatens command and control...
I have found some ass holes will listen to a family lawyer when they will not talk nor listen to family members. So you meet privately with the lawyer at the start, and then he word smiths what needs to be done at follow up group meeting(s) in his office. If this does not work - - at least you all know where you stand and can move on.
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Nesikep
Well-known member
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head... and you picked up exactly on what I was saying. Not sure if I'd sell the place and find something that can handle a small but bigger herd in a more efficient manner.. For the 50 arable acres here, there are places that take a lot less work at triple the size.. a little less of the feeling that you're chasing your tailSupa Dexta":28b1g3ki said:
melking
Well-known member
I have trained folks for years on all kinds of subjects, but this is the most common one of all. In the end, you have to make the decision to "go to the wall" I m talking a clear concise outline of what you want from him and realizing that you might leave the meeting on your own. It is the only way he might bend.
Bright Raven
Well-known member
Human relations is challenging. Whether it is parents, spouse, siblings, relatives, friends, or a stranger. It can be so challenging that sometimes the only option seems to be homicide. I advise against that, Nesi.
Seriously, don't feel like the lone ranger. Every user on this forum has been there. I think your father's verbal (hopefully not physical) abuse of your mother is a primary issue.
Seriously, don't feel like the lone ranger. Every user on this forum has been there. I think your father's verbal (hopefully not physical) abuse of your mother is a primary issue.
Farm Fence Solutions
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How you feel about building fence? lol
alisonb
Well-known member
It must have taken a lot to post that Nesi, it must feel a bit like sitting on a volcano. The reality I'm afraid is that your father owns the property, it is his to do as he pleases. That said, he would never have welcomed you back home if he did not care for you.
We make our own bed Nesi, you have put yourself in a position where you will be treated as a dog's body...you are staying under his roof, he makes the rules. He has you manipulated by dangling 'the carrot' every now and then. Apart from that you will certainly not be treated as a 40yr old adult, not by your father and not by your mother. You will probably find that at times you don't act like a 40yr old either. I may be wrong but perhaps one of the reasons that you have stuck it out is because of your mother...
Without emotions, analyze your setup as well as yourself(two wrongs don't make a right ;-) ). Your are intelligent and industrious. Remove yourself from under his roof, you said you don't need much, "I'm not a guy who needs a lot.. 3 squares and a roof, and a beer on friday nights.. And a couple cows.". Approach your father with a plan. Could you build your own little 'pad' on his property, be responsible for your own laundry and cooking etc? Own a few cows? Become a partner/manager - have a contract that you both agree on setup by a third party?.
If he disagrees, as difficult as it may be, remove yourself from there. I've heard of many people starting again at 40, that includes dating
We make our own bed Nesi, you have put yourself in a position where you will be treated as a dog's body...you are staying under his roof, he makes the rules. He has you manipulated by dangling 'the carrot' every now and then. Apart from that you will certainly not be treated as a 40yr old adult, not by your father and not by your mother. You will probably find that at times you don't act like a 40yr old either. I may be wrong but perhaps one of the reasons that you have stuck it out is because of your mother...
Without emotions, analyze your setup as well as yourself(two wrongs don't make a right ;-) ). Your are intelligent and industrious. Remove yourself from under his roof, you said you don't need much, "I'm not a guy who needs a lot.. 3 squares and a roof, and a beer on friday nights.. And a couple cows.". Approach your father with a plan. Could you build your own little 'pad' on his property, be responsible for your own laundry and cooking etc? Own a few cows? Become a partner/manager - have a contract that you both agree on setup by a third party?.
If he disagrees, as difficult as it may be, remove yourself from there. I've heard of many people starting again at 40, that includes dating
Nesi I always enjoy your writings.Sorry your family going through this.Your not going to like what I say, but it comes from my heart and experience. Even if he gives it all to you, it will never be truly yours. Good luck friend
dieselbeef
Well-known member
have ya seen the movie hud with paul newman..
yer story reminded me of that even tho it isn't a parallel ..sorry for yer troubles man.
snce my wife died ive neen real short tempered and mostly more work than play. I flipped out on my son yesterday in walmart cuz he walked off to go to the bathroom. im feeling real bad bout it. some things cant be undone...I hate to think of some of the things he will remember about me. I think your dad hasn't thought abut how things will be in HIS future....because of HIS past maybe?
yer story reminded me of that even tho it isn't a parallel ..sorry for yer troubles man.
snce my wife died ive neen real short tempered and mostly more work than play. I flipped out on my son yesterday in walmart cuz he walked off to go to the bathroom. im feeling real bad bout it. some things cant be undone...I hate to think of some of the things he will remember about me. I think your dad hasn't thought abut how things will be in HIS future....because of HIS past maybe?
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Nesikep
Well-known member
Alisonb and 3legged. . You're both darned spot on... I hear lots of things I don't necessarily like, but truth is truth ...
Dieselbeef. . Everyone can get pizzed at something trivial and say things in anger aND whike going though every thing you've been going though. .. no, you can it back, but apologizing does go a long way... just buying stuff (flowers,etc) are a nice gesture but not a replacement for it... it doesn't take any courage to do that.
I'm not exactly under the same roof... I live in the mezzanine of the shop, and except for meals we really do have fairly separate lives.
Things have currently smoothed over enough for small talk
Dieselbeef. . Everyone can get pizzed at something trivial and say things in anger aND whike going though every thing you've been going though. .. no, you can it back, but apologizing does go a long way... just buying stuff (flowers,etc) are a nice gesture but not a replacement for it... it doesn't take any courage to do that.
I'm not exactly under the same roof... I live in the mezzanine of the shop, and except for meals we really do have fairly separate lives.
Things have currently smoothed over enough for small talk
dieselbeef
Well-known member
ah man I know. I apologized to him today over a bowl of ice cream, hes 10. he don't think im a dick yet...get what im saying...idk how to tell ya what I mean. its yer dads way..how he is..all he knows kinda thing. he cant really help it maybe? do you remember him being any other way?
sometimes it takes a lot for him to see things...when I left home...my dad changed towards me in a good way when he saw what I was gonna give up to do what I wanted...maybe in talk tell him you have been thinking of doing something else? not sure what but something different.
sometimes it takes a lot for him to see things...when I left home...my dad changed towards me in a good way when he saw what I was gonna give up to do what I wanted...maybe in talk tell him you have been thinking of doing something else? not sure what but something different.
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Nesikep
Well-known member
Don't worry, it doesn't happen overnight... you gotta be persistent and unapologetic if you want him to eventually think you're a dick!dieselbeef":1ncaytdh said:
He might have been different a long time ago, but he's been like this for so long I can't remember him any other way
Nesi,
This same story was on the Breeds board with the young Angus guy from Kansas.
Let's try to get to the bare bones. Sounds like your father wants the same payout you are hoping for when he dies. He wants the money and sees you as the easiest person to blame for not selling the place.
This is not going to end well for you unless you make a move. Offer to lease/purchase the place or start actively looking for a new location where you can bring your cattle.
My aunt wiped herself on my grandparents like a sticky booger. She eventually went bat sh-t crazy waiting for them to die. People will never respect you if you do that.
It's going to be even harder if your father sells it out from under you if you don't have a plan. At 73 your father is coping with diminished cognitive ability combined with obviously wanting a tangible monetary reward for his life of hard work.
My old man never gave me sh-t. I had to buy my first car from him. He showed up with a torn up 67 VW when I was 16, told me I owed him $600 and that i needed to fix it because it looked bad in the driveway.
This same story was on the Breeds board with the young Angus guy from Kansas.
Let's try to get to the bare bones. Sounds like your father wants the same payout you are hoping for when he dies. He wants the money and sees you as the easiest person to blame for not selling the place.
This is not going to end well for you unless you make a move. Offer to lease/purchase the place or start actively looking for a new location where you can bring your cattle.
My aunt wiped herself on my grandparents like a sticky booger. She eventually went bat sh-t crazy waiting for them to die. People will never respect you if you do that.
It's going to be even harder if your father sells it out from under you if you don't have a plan. At 73 your father is coping with diminished cognitive ability combined with obviously wanting a tangible monetary reward for his life of hard work.
My old man never gave me sh-t. I had to buy my first car from him. He showed up with a torn up 67 VW when I was 16, told me I owed him $600 and that i needed to fix it because it looked bad in the driveway.
southerngentleman
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teach your old man to hide his power level better... seriously... what kind of politics is he into that is driving a bunch of cowboys away?
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Caustic Burno":31rfu3tg said:
Graduated HS, moved out and have never looked back. Nesikep I have some regrets, but I got my gut full of cattle by about 14. There were times I should have been paying attention and wasn't. I remembering swearing that I would never own a cow.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
The problem is actually him..he's just using you,to release his frustration on...
You have to walk!
He needs to face losing his family before he'll change.
My dad was an extreme alcoholic and used steroids also. Our relationship now is great. He's 74 and I'm 49. There are no grand kids and never will be.
I didn't talk to him for a couple of years and Mom threatened to leave. That seems to have helped.
He needs to face losing his family before he'll change.
My dad was an extreme alcoholic and used steroids also. Our relationship now is great. He's 74 and I'm 49. There are no grand kids and never will be.
I didn't talk to him for a couple of years and Mom threatened to leave. That seems to have helped.
