Brangus, don't really know what you mean there...I did say a "start" --so, to be more exact...he puts 30 days or so on them(they know how to go, stop, turn, back, and are beginning to neck rein, can change gaits with little to no pressure, etc.), then puts 60 days of reining training on them, then moves them to roping(by that time they will stop with little to no rein pressure, move off the leg, and really keep their hind end engaged, spin, roll back, flying lead changes..)...so, yeah, that's a pretty good foundation(which we call a start, or at least I do, here), but -- that being said, most cow horses on the working ranches are out in the pasture with the cattle after a few days under saddle in the arena/round pen; so I don't really know what you are saying about the 60 day deal; after 60 days, my ponies can move off the leg, the reins, and pretty much are starting to get "ahold" of what they are supposed to do with a cow. Of course, I do know some dressage trainers that take 6 months before they lope/gallop a horse...that's the first ride here.