Inhumane BLM Wild horse round ups

[dianab]

Anyone following the BLM's (bureau of land management) wild horse round ups? Secretary of the Interior, Ken Salazar,
wants to severely limit the number of protected mustangs grazing in their allocated HMAs (herd management areas). They have barred the public from viewing the roundups. They have stampeded horses for miles in extreme heat chasing them with a helicopter. They have had hundreds of horses die due to lack of compassion and care in the roundup procedure. They have separated mares from their 2 month and less foals with no attempt to reunite them causing the death of at least one foal. They have ignored a letter signed by 54 members of congress requesting that they stop the roundups until there is a scientific review of the number of horses the areas can maintain and the least traumatic ways of thinning the herd. They have reported a no fly zone over the roundup areas so their activities could not be filmed from the air, even though they were never granted a no fly zone by the FAA. When the court ordered that Laura Leigh, (an advocate for the mustangs) be allowed to view the gather, they put the corrals on private land and said since she didn't have the landowner's permission she would be arrested for trespassing if she proceeded to the horse gather area. (Turns out the land owner had no objection to Laura viewing the entire process and would have let her in.) When a temporary restraining order was granted in Nevada, they insisted that there was a water shortage and the horses had to be moved out on an emergency basis or up to 75% would die. After the roundup it was proved that there was no water emergency except in the areas where ranchers has been sold water rights and had fenced the horses out. There were still plenty of areas where water was available for horses to drink.

The BLM sees wild horses as a nuisance that must be eradicated what ever the cost. They don't care how many horses are killed or injured in the roundups. They don't care what congress or the public want on our public lands. They think they are above the law and are bound and determined to cut the herds down to unsustainable levels so they will die off. If you care about horses, please visit the Cloud Foundation and find out what you can do to help stop the BLM from destroying what is left of our Mustang herds.
http://www.thecloudfoundation.org/

 

[Angus Cowman]

besat thing would of been for the gov't, peta and the rest of the tree huggers to of stayed out of the horse business 50 yrs ago and then there wouldn't be the overpopulation of wild horses Now

 

[dianab]

There is no over population of wild horses. Horses are a small percentage of the total animals grazing on public lands and they are not in jeopardy of running out of food or water.

There is an overpopulation of domesticated horses. Seems like anyone who owns a mare thinks they should raise a foal with no idea of what quality that foal will be or how he will live out his life.

 

[1982vett]

For what it is worth........I'm all for rounding up MY share of the mustang herd (you can keep yours if you want). Send them to slaughter and export the meat to whom ever wants to pay the highest dollar for it!

Wouldn't hurt my feelings of some of them unwanted "domesticated horses" went along for the ride. ;-)

 

[3waycross]

I smell somthng that smells a lot like PETA

Sounds like the same bunch who got rid of all the horse kill facilities in USA so that they can be shipped to Mexico to be slaughtered where we all know it's much more humane.

 

[dianab]

The BLM's intention is not to send horses to slaughter. They adopt these horses out to good homes for $125. Knowing that adoptions are way down, they intend to keep them in pens and small pastures, feeding them on the tax payers $$ for the rest of their life. That is after they pay over a million per each roundup location to have them gathered off lands that can actually support the horses that are out there. There are now more wild horses in captivity being fed by the taxpayers than there are in the lands allocated for the use of the horses. If they would just leave the horses where they are everything would be fine.

I know these horses don't have the best life. They don't get wormed, vaccinated or feet trimmed. I know quite a few died when West Nile went through. Foals sometimes die at birth if there is a problem at foaling. Stallions get in fights and get injured and only time heals the injuries of a wild horse. Young and old can die of pneumonia and other diseases, but the strongest survive and the herd lives on. Tell me why these horses should be shipped out of their homes in favor of holding facalities and government feed at huge expense to a country that doesn't have any money to waste.

 

[1982vett]

The BLM's intention is not to send horses to slaughter. They adopt these horses out to good homes for $125. Knowing that adoptions are way down, they intend to keep them in pens and small pastures, feeding them on the tax payers $$ for the rest of their life. That is after they pay over a million per each roundup location to have them gathered off lands that can actually support the horses that are out there. There are now more wild horses in captivity being fed by the taxpayers than there are in the lands allocated for the use of the horses. If they would just leave the horses where they are everything would be fine.

I know these horses don't have the best life. They don't get wormed, vaccinated or feet trimmed. I know quite a few died when West Nile went through. Foals sometimes die at birth if there is a problem at foaling. Stallions get in fights and get injured and only time heals the injuries of a wild horse. Young and old can die of pneumonia and other diseases, but the strongest survive and the herd lives on. Tell me why these horses should be shipped out of their homes in favor of holding facalities and government feed at huge expense to a country that doesn't have any money to waste.

Right. For the same reasons we can't send them to slaughter, sell the meat to someone who wants to eat it, sent those profits to the treasury and spent the money on some other asinine project.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Could they be herded into a valley or river bed where one small tactical nuclear device takes em all out at once??

No, not the horses, the animal rights freaks ! :banana:

Guess what, now the animal rights terrorists are moving to ban Canada from processing or shipping them for slaughter, stating that we are not as "humane" as the US who banned it !!! Thanks a lot guys! :tiphat:

 

[dianab]

I don't get it. Why do you all hate the horses so much? Why can't you just let them stay on the lands they were supposed to be on. Many cattleman get permits to graze cattle on these public lands and are allowed to graze far more cattle than there are horses. Horses are flight animals and pretty much stay out of the way of the cattle. If the land will support so many animals, what is the problem with leaving some horses out there? What is next? Are we going to remove the buffalo, deer, elk, antelope and anything else that is wild?? If someone can tell me what problem is out there that is causing us to spend millions and millions of dollars to round up horses and burros and millions more to house them in places like Iowa, I sure would like to try to understand your point of view. I am just not seeing it.

 

[pdfangus]

I don't get it. Why do you all hate the horses so much? Why can't you just let them stay on the lands they were supposed to be on. Many cattleman get permits to graze cattle on these public lands and are allowed to graze far more cattle than there are horses. Horses are flight animals and pretty much stay out of the way of the cattle. If the land will support so many animals, what is the problem with leaving some horses out there? What is next? Are we going to remove the buffalo, deer, elk, antelope and anything else that is wild?? If someone can tell me what problem is out there that is causing us to spend millions and millions of dollars to round up horses and burros and millions more to house them in places like Iowa, I sure would like to try to understand your point of view. I am just not seeing it.

and so you now understand why no one will engage in resonable debate over the issue.....

you are "just not seeing it".....

It is clear from your posts that you have your opinion and are sticking to it.

so others a just lobbing grenades at you to see your response.

The truth is somwhere in the middle and if it was a simple problem then there would be a simple solution. yours by the way is not the simple solution. but then you are just not seeing it....or hearing it....or reading it....

 

[Angus Cowman]

the wild horses weren't near as big of a problem before the gov't and the tree huggers got involved and had to try and save them all
if the gov't would have left them alone then we we wouldn't be having the problem we are having today

As fro running more cows on the land the horses run on yes you can run around 5 cows on the same land it takes to run 1 horse also the horses will destroy the grasses by eating it to short and pulling it up from the roots so therfore it takes more land to run the horses
the horses do not supply any benefit to anyone and if the gov't really wanted to do the right thing they would eliminate about 80% of the horse herd and then keep it at a moderate more controllable level to maintain the heritage of these horses if that is what needs to be done

alot of these horses that everyone calls wild native horses are not native alot of these horses are horses that were turned out yrs ago on free range and never gather or horses taht escaped from ranches when they were still using open range
their is alot of quarter horse, and thoroughbred blood in these horses

I know a treehugger and a save the world lobbyist will never beleive any of this so I guess I typed it all needlessly so have a good day and keep living in your little rosy world

 

[hayray]

Lets' also get the terminology correct. These "Wild Horses" are actually feral animals, mostly released/abandoned by ranchers after the initiantion of things like the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 and the general less reliance on needing a fleet of horses. I would be all for preserving a actual herd of historic Spanish Mustangs and I think some private herds exist but I think all herds on the public lands are just feral horses costing millions of dollars. The post is also incorrect in stating that they do no studies about range carrying capacity. Since the Wild Horse Act in the early 70's the populations must now be managed based on research and are now treated like a wildlife population rather then livestock. I am sure the round ups are chaotic, how else would you round these animals up?

 

[dianab]

Thanks Angus for finally giving an answer. I have a over 200 head of Angus breeding stock and 10 horses so I know the difference in the way they eat. Horses bite the grass close to the ground leaving it much shorter. Cattle wrap their tongue around it and pull so they can't eat the short regrowth left by the horses before the horses get it again. From my experience I don't think you are right about more acres per horse. I have a small front pasture I can see from my window that I sometimes have a few horses on and sometimes it is a few cows. (Both breeding animals needing a good level of feed.) I know I can leave more horses on it for months than cattle. Cattle just need more to maintain than a horse does. Also in winter a hay ring will be cleaned up by 10 cows in a day (they would eat more if I let them). That same hay will last 5 horses a week to 10 days. I'm sure my cows eat less than average, because I have been feed efficiency testing at the bull tests and consistently topping the results. We knew a long time ago that the ethanol thing would one day drive corn prices and our bull buyers would need efficient calves to hold things together.

As for the benefit, the cattle supply no benefit to anyone other than the cattle owner. I guess since we are talking about public lands the view they provide is a benefit. I enjoy looking at a herd of black cattle spread out on a lush bottom at the base of a hill as much as I enjoy watching a herd of horses.

I never said these horses were native. They are no more native than your European cattle are. It is true there are strays out there mixing with the Mustangs, but many of the Mustangs trace their roots to the settling of this country and as such they have a place in history and a place on the land granted by law. There are a few herds so isolated that are pure enough to match their DNA to Spanish herds still being bred today.

Though there are some herds that should be left alone, I have no objection to removing some horses from the range if it can be done in a humane way. Bait and trap would be much better and less expensive than these helicopter roundups. I think you would admit quickly that your methods need to change if you had a 2% death loss every time you round up your cattle.

The BLM knows they are in the wrong which is why they are so evasive and tell out and out lies. Cattoor has a lock on the contracts so they just run the horses too hard and get the copters back on the ground to save fuel. They get paid the same amount for every horse brought in off the range dead or alive. (Bet you wouldn't give that deal to your cattle hands.)

I understand now you here are all cattlemen that don't want horses sharing ground with your cattle since the horses can eat the grass shorter. May I ask, are there no other areas available to graze your cattle, or is the public land that much cheaper to use. Being in the Midwest and owning or privately renting ground for my cattle, I don't have any experience with this.

 

[Angus Cowman]

As for the benefit, the cattle supply no benefit to anyone other than the cattle owner. quote]
I guess the people of the world don't eat BEEF

I am not against horses at all I had a herd of 60 broodmares for several yrs and have no problem with horses if I could afford to do my cattle work horseback I still would and did for several yrs when I worked ranches for someone else I feel there is no better way to really notice your cows than being horseback in and around them

as for rounding these horses up I have there might be a better way but I really doubt it being more cost effective as I have talked to some oldtimers that herded horses yrs ago and it was a tough,rugged, dangerous life and wasn't very effective at all
they said it might take them 2 or 3 months to gather 100 hd

as for a horse eating more than a cow on a yrly basis they will and they also damage the grass far worse than a cow there has been several studies done on it and they will eat the grass shorter to the ground and keeping it shorter will eventually lead to damage of the root system and destroy the stand

 

[dianab]

As for the benefit, the cattle supply no benefit to anyone other than the cattle owner. quote]
I guess the people of the world don't eat BEEF

We will have plenty of BEEF no matter where the cattle graze. I thought you were implying that there was a benefit to having the cattle on public lands.

I'm glad to hear you approve of using horses to go through your cattle. I wouldn't be without my old 16 hand TB when it comes to calving. Just 2 days ago, I stood him in a ditch while I picked up a new embryo calf who's mom had left him panting in the sun while she went over the hill to the tree line with the rest of the cows. I would have come back with the 4-wheeler to move the calf, but it broke down. Now old Rough had never had a calf thrown over his withers, but I had told him HO!! so he stood in the ditch until I boosted the calf up and it started flailing. One more HO stopped him and I scrambled up to hold the calf with both arms and guide Rough to momma with my voice and my legs. Getting me and the calf down off the 16 hand horse wasn't quite so graceful, but we survived and momma is keeping a closer eye on her calf since then.

I bet if Cattoor wasn't paid on a dead or alive basis and was only paid for the numbers he brought in uninjured we might see a little different pace to the roundup. I fully realize that you have to rush the horses when you get them to the mouth of the trap. Otherwise they are looking for options. I think you could head the horses gently in the right direction with more than 1 helicopter keeping back a greater distance, then use a larger ground crew to hurry them when you get close to the trap. The way Cattoor runs the roundup and the BLM hides the facts will not be accepted by a lot of people and cattlemen, not Cattoor, will see the backlash. I've seen posts on a health and nutrition board asking where to buy non-USA beef, because they wanted to make sure they weren't supporting "welfare cattle". One of my bull customers brought it to my attention. He wanted to know if there was a program he could sell his cattle into that would promote them as being Midwest corn-fed or some such thing. I don't know what to tell him.

 

[3waycross]

As for the benefit, the cattle supply no benefit to anyone other than the cattle owner. quote]
I guess the people of the world don't eat BEEF

We will have plenty of BEEF no matter where the cattle graze. I thought you were implying that there was a benefit to having the cattle on public lands.

I'm glad to hear you approve of using horses to go through your cattle. I wouldn't be without my old 16 hand TB when it comes to calving. Just 2 days ago, I stood him in a ditch while I picked up a new embryo calf who's mom had left him panting in the sun while she went over the hill to the tree line with the rest of the cows. I would have come back with the 4-wheeler to move the calf, but it broke down. Now old Rough had never had a calf thrown over his withers, but I had told him HO!! so he stood in the ditch until I boosted the calf up and it started flailing. One more HO stopped him and I scrambled up to hold the calf with both arms and guide Rough to momma with my voice and my legs. Getting me and the calf down off the 16 hand horse wasn't quite so graceful, but we survived and momma is keeping a closer eye on her calf since then.
Diana you need one of two thngs. A shorter horse or the ability to let the cows mother those calves themselves. Your story reminds me of a friend who had no practical cattle experience who wore out a 4 wheeler hauling the calves to their mothers all summer.
I bet if Cattoor wasn't paid on a dead or alive basis and was only paid for the numbers he brought in uninjured we might see a little different pace to the roundup. I fully realize that you have to rush the horses when you get them to the mouth of the trap. Otherwise they are looking for options. I think you could head the horses gently in the right direction with more than 1 helicopter keeping back a greater distance, then use a larger ground crew to hurry them when you get close to the trap. The way Cattoor runs the roundup and the BLM hides the facts will not be accepted by a lot of people and cattlemen, not Cattoor, will see the backlash. I've seen posts on a health and nutrition board asking where to buy non-USA beef, because they wanted to make sure they weren't supporting "welfare cattle". One of my bull customers brought it to my attention. He wanted to know if there was a program he could sell his cattle into that would promote them as being Midwest corn-fed or some such thing. I don't know what to tell him.

You should have told him that all that corn was doing just as much or more damage to the environment as those cows on the national forrest were. THERE IS A FOOTPRINT TO EVERYTHING WE DO AND ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS A MORON.DOES HE NOT KNOW THAT THERE ARE GOV FARM SUBSIDIES THTOUGHOUT THE ENTIRE AG INDUSTRY(DON'T YOU), AND THANK GOD THERE ARE!! { Corn Subsidies**
NUMBER OF RECIPIENTS 729,638 SUBSIDY TOTAL FOR 2009, $4,194,744,978 } PLEASE STOP BEING SO NIEVE...........AND NO I DON'T HATE HORSES, OR YOU

 

[hayray]

Cows take more acreage to maintane? - no way, I have to disagree with this. I don't have a reference but I remember reading a study years ago that found that the average horse has 13 feeding episodes per day totaling about 18 hours of feeding compared to cattle at about 8 hours per day feeding. On any areas of my pasture that I have grazed horses I see the negative benefits for a couple years afterwards and it is amazing how much a horse eats compared to a cow. Average horse requreiments are comparable to a cow however if fed ad lib a horse will easily consume about 30-50% more then the requirements.