Improving someone elses land

[JCB565]

If i were to lease land for say, 10 an acre.. and this land isnt that productive, and through intensive management I double or tripple the production, how would you as a land owner react? and how should I, as a leasee, protect myself from a greedy land owner?

2nd question. Im looking for a 'working breed" of cattle. A paticular breed that has througout history, made do with less feed and still been able to work, or finish on grass. I read an article a few years ago about a cattle breed used for plowing, that did not get much feed. Over time with selective breeding, this bloodline was able to do more work with the same food input. i cant for the life of me find the article. I want to say they were talking about wagyu, but I cant remember...anyone know?

 

[Brute 23]

That is why you lease by the head not by the acre. It's to both Yalls benefit to increase the numbers. The land owner is more likely to apply lease dollars to improvements if it raises the annual income for them.

 

[bigbull338]

brute your just saying why its not a good idea to lease land that is grown up needs fences as well as alot of other work.because you can lease it for so long.but if you have todo all of the above work.i know that when the lease expires the odds of the landowner renewing the lease is 0.

 

[Brute 23]

brute your just saying why its not a good idea to lease land that is grown up needs fences as well as alot of other work.because you can lease it for so long.but if you have todo all of the above work.i know that when the lease expires the odds of the landowner renewing the lease is 0.

I wouldn't do any thing with out 5 or 10+ years. It's basic math with leases. The numbers either work or they dont. Your improvements better pay dividends with in the lease period.

 

[bigbull338]

brute your just saying why its not a good idea to lease land that is grown up needs fences as well as alot of other work.because you can lease it for so long.but if you have todo all of the above work.i know that when the lease expires the odds of the landowner renewing the lease is 0.

I wouldn't do any thing with out 5 or 10+ years. It's basic math with leases. The numbers either work or they dont. Your improvements better pay dividends with in the lease period.

the point is no matter how long the lease is the lease holder will always loose money improving land they dont own.plus the land owner can go sky high on the lease during the lease unless other wise noted in the agreement.i know brushy grown up pasture here that leases for $30 an ac a yr take it or leave it.

 

[Brute 23]

I disagree that you always lose money on improvements. Again you should be able to calculate what the improvement cost you vs what it will return you.

$30 an acre means nothing to me. What's the stocking rate per acre? Improvements?

The point of a lease is to lock in a time frame for a pre-determined amount. There should be no upping the dollars.

I'm fine with take it or leave it. We are in the business to make money. As I have said before, I manage cattle for a guy. The majority of our land is leased. We make a profit or we don't do it. We can go play golf or fish if we want to blow money and have a lot more fun. ;-)

We have walked away from far more deals than we have done. The ones we have done were good.

 

[Tim/South]

I have 150+ acres in long term free lease. All leases are in writing and enforceable. If the land sells or changes hands through heirs I either retain the lease or am to be paid for my improvements. The lands are owned by successful members of our community.
On my three largest leases the owner sought me out. The places had been abused by the previous renters. I have spent considerable time and money in making the land productive again.
One 50 parcel is hay only, another 50 acres is hay/pasture at my discretion. I have had the county extension agent and Soil and Water visit the lands. I follow their recommendations. The land owners are happy their property looks healthy again, are happy it is productive again.
If I was not managing the land then the owners would have to pay for upkeep. While all of the properties have been leased for cash in the past, all had become neglected.
I put 100 tons of basic slag on one place last year. I am spraying and drilling seed in two places this year at the cost of $5,400. none of the property owners care to bale hay or run cattle. There is little money in cow hay here. I need the hay to feed my cattle.
I do not mind spending money on another person's place if I have it long term and free. I can treat it like my own.

 

[Brute 23]

That is the same thing we did on the last place I leased. The place was extremely neglected. I asked the owners flat out... do you want to put cash in you pocket and the place go to **** or do you want to get you place back to the condition it once was.

 

[backhoeboogie]

On my three largest leases the owner sought me out.

Speaks volumes.

People want their land improved. They also want to keep property tax ag exemptions.
It's not always just about money. Never is.

 

[Bigfoot]

i got super lucky, and lease 45 acres that join me. It's unheard of here to find pasture to lease. I fertilize, lime, tighten fences, spray bushes, and don't let cows on it in the winter. I'm glad to have it, and don't want to lose it. Sometimes you just do what you gotta do.

 

[12251HD]

I lease out land to a neighbor for corn and soybean production. While I do make money, my objective is to improve the land quality and value each year. The operator who farms it has a goal of improving production (and profit) each year. His yearly investments has paid off for both of us. We work on 5-year lease increments and set a price that accommodates our respective objectives. The key is open honest communication between the operator and land owner.

 

[Tim/South]

People want their land improved. They also want to keep property tax ag exemptions.
It's not always just about money. Never is.

Very true.
Tax relief is money in the bank. If a person had a large piece of property for a back yard they want it to look nice. More true if they are not hurting for money.
In talking with an extension agent he share some of the situations he has been called on to advise. More and more children inherit their parents farm and expect to get $20,000 annual rent on 60 acres of pasture.
I will admit there are times I have had second thoughts about taking on a place. Once you agree and begin there is no backing out. It is usually three years before I can make enough hay to begin breaking even.
On one place I am having trouble keeping the neighbors cows out of the land I rent. Fences are good net wire with barb on top. Just not good enough to keep hungry cows out. A hot wire and solar charger is next. I can not get mad at the cows, not their fault, did not chose their owners. They look pretty good now. Been grazing the fescue bottoms I had stockpiled. Owners had no idea their cattle were roaming.

 

[cow pollinater]

i got super lucky, and lease 45 acres that join me. It's unheard of here to find pasture to lease. I fertilize, lime, tighten fences, spray bushes, and don't let cows on it in the winter. I'm glad to have it, and don't want to lose it. Sometimes you just do what you gotta do.

What lease ground I do have left is pretty much mine for as long as I want it because I treat it like it is mine.
When you treat other people's ground like it's only a business decision, don't be real surprised when they also treat it and you like it's only a business decision. They'll go for top dollar when the lease is due and you're out if it's more than what you want to pay. You can lose your butt treating it like it's your own with the wrong owner but with the right owner it's long term "in" regardless of the money.
Before you sink any money in though, talk to the owner and feel out what's on their mind and make sure they're on board before you invest.

 

[highgrit]

We have a hay field just for the up keep and we make sure it looks good. But we don't have a lease and that holds me back from spending to much on improvements. 3 sisters and a uncle own the land, the uncle and one of the sisters husband are jerks, or so I'm told. I spend about $10.00 a bale on fertilizer, spraying and lime.

 

[fenceman]

When doing improvements above normal maintenance i try to get landowner to deduct. value of work from lease payment or try to get them to commit to along term lease. say 10 years. if lease is terminated early i get paid for my work. I do normal maintenance fence, road repairs etc. and ask for nothing, leases are hard to get.

 

[JCB565]

very interesting reading some of your replies. while there is differences, it seems the common thought is to manage the land like ours your own. I intend to do holistic ranching (intensive management) and this requires much more infrastructure (at least fit the way I want it done) I guess I should simply put it in writing who owns that infrastructure and take it with me when I go. my biggest concern is finding out at the last minute the land owner wants to double the price or something and I'm left with 60 head that have no choice but to graze that pasture. bad business but I've seen it happen

 

[Tim/South]

my biggest concern is finding out at the last minute the land owner wants to double the price or something and I'm left with 60 head that have no choice but to graze that pasture. bad business but I've seen it happen

Happens all the time. It happened to a good friend of mine a few years ago, is happening to another friend this year.
You get the place producing and looking good and someone comes along and offers better money. No matter how well we know someone we have to protect our investment. Things and people change.

 

[bigbull338]

the best of all are once the land is in producing shape the land owner pulls the lease and puts cows on it hisself.

 

[houstoncutter]

Something some of guys looking to lease might consider . Look to lease from someone who been in the cattle biz like me that has got out. At my age I'm not going back in.

Don't spend money on repairing fences , buildings or corrals. Portable corrals and electric fence are all you need to run your cattle. The grass in that pastures is all you need to worry about

 

[regolith]

Something some of guys looking to lease might consider . Look to lease from someone who been in the cattle biz like me that has got out. At my age I'm not going back in.

Don't spend money on repairing fences , buildings or corrals. Portable corrals and electric fence are all you need to run your cattle. The grass in that pastures is all you need to worry about

And check the contract... I had one worded so that all improvements stayed with the farm regardless; if anyone had tried to enforce that rigidly they could have grabbed the calf water troughs and one or two other things that I've moved from farm to farm several times.