xbred
Well-known member
How many of you fertilize pasture.. or use open pasture/native unimproved pasture? I have to fertilize, clip, and move cattle... All are high cost.. i graze 1 unit per 1.5 acres.. and buy hay...
improved pasture
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I used to be a real commercial nitrogen junkie. I would spray the whole field if I saw a couple of weeds. Had very nice pure fescue pastures and it cost me a mint. I would barely break even. No clover.
Switched to chicken litter 2 years ago and I have tons of clover now. I also rotationally graze but it's only a six paddock system. Helps though.
Switched to chicken litter 2 years ago and I have tons of clover now. I also rotationally graze but it's only a six paddock system. Helps though.
regolith
Well-known member
At a rough guess, the difference in pasture harvested per hectare between the average and top farms in my local area is about 30%.
Got that from recent conversation with a farm consultant, the farms under discussion were all rotationally grazed dairy farms and it's a fair presumption that the management of the pasture creates the difference.
Got that from recent conversation with a farm consultant, the farms under discussion were all rotationally grazed dairy farms and it's a fair presumption that the management of the pasture creates the difference.
agmantoo
Well-known member
xbred
If profit is your reason for having cattle you need to consider going to intensive rotational grazing.
I run ~100 commercial beef broodcows and I feed their calves until sold as feeder calves for 365 days per year on 141 ares. Hay is fed only in drought conditions, twice in the last 12 years. I buy no commercial fertilizer and I do not spray herbicides on the pasture grazed areas. I do use chicken litter to fertilizer 20% of the farm each year. That is all the litter that I have access to. My purchased inputs consist of diesel fuel, some seed, equipment maintenance, minerals and some wormer and fly treatment.
If profit is your reason for having cattle you need to consider going to intensive rotational grazing.
I run ~100 commercial beef broodcows and I feed their calves until sold as feeder calves for 365 days per year on 141 ares. Hay is fed only in drought conditions, twice in the last 12 years. I buy no commercial fertilizer and I do not spray herbicides on the pasture grazed areas. I do use chicken litter to fertilizer 20% of the farm each year. That is all the litter that I have access to. My purchased inputs consist of diesel fuel, some seed, equipment maintenance, minerals and some wormer and fly treatment.
xbred
Well-known member
teach me... litter is hard to get here, but not impossible.. i get it when i can... i have good grass and take care of it.. i'm always willing to learn...do you rye grass in the winter?.. what do your mama cows eat in the winter Dec-feb?
lynnmcmahan
Well-known member
xbred":msnr4zv3 said:
What do they eat in Nov,Mar& Apl?
agmantoo
Well-known member
xbred and lynnmcmahan
Yes I seed ryegrass some crimson clover in the Fall.
Here is what works for me to feed my herd during the dormant months of Winter. In Sept I start stockpiling fescue which is my base feed. We usually get some rain off the hurricanes that come up the coast and that moisture along with the heat of Summer starting to subside permits the fescue to begin coming out of dormancy. Part of the farm is devoted to feeding the herd and and the remainder of the pasture is set aside for Winter stockpiled feed. Since going with the Fall seeded ryegrass I have decreased the amount of set aside acreage for fescue stockpiling. At this time I plan on feeding stockpiled fescue for approximately 60 to 75 days. Rotational grazing not only allowed me to increase the herd size it permitted me to graze into Jan. July and Aug are also trying months here as it can get dry. I stockpile Spring growth fescue to carry me thru these 2 months. I do not make hay and I have sold the equipment. From Spring green up, I feed ryegrass and emerging fescue and clover, during Summer, I feed fescue, clover, crabgrass and stockpiled fescue, come Fall, fescue and clover are the mainstay, Winters are usually mild and growing fescue and clover will provide for the herd until a hard freeze hits around mid Jan then the herd depends of the stockpiled fescue to carry them through until Mar and the cycles starts over. I want the herd going into Winter with a body condition score of 5 and often a heifer with calve may drop a little condition but I know she will make it up come Spring with compensatory gain. It takes a hardy cow to repetitively go through the scheme of things here but I have a number of cattle that have lasted many years with me and are in good shape to go many more. I want a cow that is frame score 4 or less, one that gives moderate milk and matures at around 1050 to 1100 lbs. She has to produce a calf each year and I prefer her to do it on a 11 month cycle. I calve yearround and only in an emergency do I give assistance. I refuse to be a midwife to a cow, problem calving animals are culled, no exception. My feeder calves typically sell in the upper 10 percent of the calves sold where I market mine. I take pride in being a low cost producer. I enjoy doing what I do but I do it to make a profit also.
Yes I seed ryegrass some crimson clover in the Fall.
Here is what works for me to feed my herd during the dormant months of Winter. In Sept I start stockpiling fescue which is my base feed. We usually get some rain off the hurricanes that come up the coast and that moisture along with the heat of Summer starting to subside permits the fescue to begin coming out of dormancy. Part of the farm is devoted to feeding the herd and and the remainder of the pasture is set aside for Winter stockpiled feed. Since going with the Fall seeded ryegrass I have decreased the amount of set aside acreage for fescue stockpiling. At this time I plan on feeding stockpiled fescue for approximately 60 to 75 days. Rotational grazing not only allowed me to increase the herd size it permitted me to graze into Jan. July and Aug are also trying months here as it can get dry. I stockpile Spring growth fescue to carry me thru these 2 months. I do not make hay and I have sold the equipment. From Spring green up, I feed ryegrass and emerging fescue and clover, during Summer, I feed fescue, clover, crabgrass and stockpiled fescue, come Fall, fescue and clover are the mainstay, Winters are usually mild and growing fescue and clover will provide for the herd until a hard freeze hits around mid Jan then the herd depends of the stockpiled fescue to carry them through until Mar and the cycles starts over. I want the herd going into Winter with a body condition score of 5 and often a heifer with calve may drop a little condition but I know she will make it up come Spring with compensatory gain. It takes a hardy cow to repetitively go through the scheme of things here but I have a number of cattle that have lasted many years with me and are in good shape to go many more. I want a cow that is frame score 4 or less, one that gives moderate milk and matures at around 1050 to 1100 lbs. She has to produce a calf each year and I prefer her to do it on a 11 month cycle. I calve yearround and only in an emergency do I give assistance. I refuse to be a midwife to a cow, problem calving animals are culled, no exception. My feeder calves typically sell in the upper 10 percent of the calves sold where I market mine. I take pride in being a low cost producer. I enjoy doing what I do but I do it to make a profit also.
lynnmcmahan
Well-known member
Good read, thanks
regolith
Well-known member
Agman: are you reseeding with perennial or annual ryegrass?
I put some annual ryegrass in with oats, am very impressed with the regrowth thus far. We're getting temps to about 10 - 12 Celsius dropping back to freezing some nights, so although the rest of the farm is still growing it's very slow.
This is the first time I've used annual ryegrass. The sales rep tells me there's a new perennial variety on the market that even beats the annuals for cold season growth.
I put some annual ryegrass in with oats, am very impressed with the regrowth thus far. We're getting temps to about 10 - 12 Celsius dropping back to freezing some nights, so although the rest of the farm is still growing it's very slow.
This is the first time I've used annual ryegrass. The sales rep tells me there's a new perennial variety on the market that even beats the annuals for cold season growth.
agmantoo
Well-known member
I have only planted annual ryegrass. Evenvthough the Marshall ryegrass, the variety I overseed, is listed as an annual it seems to return each year with out my letting it go to seed. My original intend was to supplement the fescue with the ryegrass and I find now that I am having to reduce the seed rate because the ryegrass is becoming the dominate grass. I depend on the fescue to do some minor stockpiling to get me through the dry late July and August weather we often experience. What name is the perennial ryegrass marketed under? Thanks
regolith
Well-known member
Shogun, I looked it up on google earlier and it's a hybrid annual/perrenial so I don't know if it would seed true. Limited availability at this stage but from what I've heard I'd be very keen to try it.
Just posted photos of the regrowth of the annual 'tabu'. The area the milkers grazed on the other side of the paddock is much longer.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77587&start=15
what I've read about fescue it has to be established carefully because the ryegrass outcompetes it - most farmers are prg here and have to spray out their paddocks and crop before putting fescue in to give it a decent chance to establish. I think fescue would work well on this farm (gets hit hard by grubs and slugs eating the grass, and the bigger root system of fescue would help it survive), but can't use any sprays to get rid of the prg.
Just posted photos of the regrowth of the annual 'tabu'. The area the milkers grazed on the other side of the paddock is much longer.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77587&start=15
what I've read about fescue it has to be established carefully because the ryegrass outcompetes it - most farmers are prg here and have to spray out their paddocks and crop before putting fescue in to give it a decent chance to establish. I think fescue would work well on this farm (gets hit hard by grubs and slugs eating the grass, and the bigger root system of fescue would help it survive), but can't use any sprays to get rid of the prg.
agmantoo
Well-known member
regolith
I gave up on growing the fescues that supposedly do not have the endophyte that is detrimental to cattle. I use the KY31 variety that is the type that is host to the undesirable endophyte. My cattle are accustomed to eating this fescue and I see very little consequence from feeding it. The endophyte makes this a very hardy variety and stands of this fescue have been know to survive 25 plus years without replanting. The negative endophyte seed are very cheap and many lawns are planted to it here in North Carolina due to its survivability. With rain or irrigation the KY31 will be green roughly 10 months of the year here in growing zone 7. PS...have you ever tried a white clover named Alice?
I gave up on growing the fescues that supposedly do not have the endophyte that is detrimental to cattle. I use the KY31 variety that is the type that is host to the undesirable endophyte. My cattle are accustomed to eating this fescue and I see very little consequence from feeding it. The endophyte makes this a very hardy variety and stands of this fescue have been know to survive 25 plus years without replanting. The negative endophyte seed are very cheap and many lawns are planted to it here in North Carolina due to its survivability. With rain or irrigation the KY31 will be green roughly 10 months of the year here in growing zone 7. PS...have you ever tried a white clover named Alice?
I know for a fact that it will last more then 25 years. This farm was seeded when it was cleared 75 years ago and the fescue is still going strong. For most of that time it was just openly grazed (no smaller paddocks.pastures).agmantoo":3fz8kc87 said:
regolith
Well-known member
I may have farmed Alice without knowing it but it hasn't been common in seed mixes in the last few years. Weka and kotare is what is in the mix with the tabu, contractor thought the oats would shade it out but it seems to be germinating and surviving just fine. The same two varieties were 'the' thing last time I got seed in '07.
bigbull338
Well-known member
the best way to improve your pastures an put nitrogen back in the soil is to plant rye grass clover an vetch.that is the cheapest an best way to improve your pastures.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
xbred":1pgr7wsw said:
Manure and lime tend to be better investment than N. N economices depends on time of year and type or forage and moisture and gazing rest period...
Here hay is currently cheaper than fertilized grass, but with all the sod plowed up for $6 corn that will change.
Clover is good. Up to 40# N per ap will not set it back. I use N & S, or K & B in special situations
Here Kopu II clover does beter than Alice.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
xbred":3fcxb4qc said:
Manure and lime tend to be better investment than N. N economices depends on time of year and type or forage and moisture and gazing rest period...
Here hay is currently cheaper than fertilized grass, but with all the sod plowed up for $6 corn that will change.
Clover is good. Up to 40# N per ap will not set it back. I use N & S, or K & B in special situations
Here Kopu II clover does beter than Alice.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Alice is good, but I'm with Steve - Kopu II is even better.
I will say, from looking at pastures this morning while moving the cows, the paddocks seeded with Alice 10 years ago have a much heavier presence of clover - but, they're creekbottom fields with deeper soil and more moisture, whereas the Kopu II-seeded paddocks are more droughty, hilly ground that may need liming.
I will say, from looking at pastures this morning while moving the cows, the paddocks seeded with Alice 10 years ago have a much heavier presence of clover - but, they're creekbottom fields with deeper soil and more moisture, whereas the Kopu II-seeded paddocks are more droughty, hilly ground that may need liming.
