I need a Terminal Sire Breed??

[Harbull]

I have 250, 1250# mature 1/4 ear crossbred cows. I will need to purchase 10 bulls to re-breed them this spring. The cows have a lot of Angus/Beefmaster influence. Most of the cattle are red,dun, but some are wildly colored, about 1/4 is black.

I'm not going to keep any hiefers as replacements.

I'm not concerned with calving problems, or the show ring.

98% of my concern is pounds at weaning, but having the calves at a marketable color with no ear would be icing on the cake, because I will be selling the calves in lot loads. (probably on video)

My orginal thinking was Black Simi, Black Limi, but I'm wondering if they are as thick boned as thier red brothers. Is this true? So now I'm also considering Charlois.

I've been out of comercial cow business for the last 10 years, I'm looking for un-biased recomendation with reasoning.

I know there are good and bad bulls in every breed.

I want a big butted breed recomended to me that "consistentaly" has the biggest baddest bulls!

Thank you!
Jason in E Texas

 

[polledbull]

You are on the right track . Limousin has proven in alot of performance test to be tops when it comes to putting pounds of gain in a cross breed calf at weaning , and yearling weight . I would probably go with black Limousin if it were me . Homo black would give you more consistant color. You still might get a few odd colored calves with the cross breed cows you mentioned. The red limousin bulls would probably be a little more muscled and more stout overall . But you would get more color variance on your calves. the black limi bulls are getting better all the time and there are some pretty stout black bulls out there now to choose from .I know alot of limi breeders , if I can help , let me know . We sale limi bulls as well here in NC

 

[ollie]

Jason are you saying you do or don't want thick boned?

 

[txag]

i'm going to steal a suggestion ollie gave someone else earlier on another topic. why limit yourself to the breed before looking around? a limi, simi, maine, or charolais would probably work for your cows so why not look around for the best bull overall instead of picking a breed first & then limiting yourself with that?

question for pollebull:

if i go to a breeder & pick out a black limousin bull, how will i know he's homozygous black just from looking at him, his parents or even his papers?

 

[txshowmom]

I would use a big black polled high % Maine-Anjou bull on them.

 

[Harbull]

I like thick boned.

I'm going to limit my self to one breed.

 

[txag]

I'm going to limit my self to one breed.

i didn't mean to buy 10 different breeds but why limit your search for good bulls? look around & then pick the breed.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

The Charolais sired calves I see out of English/Brahman cross cows are usually real impressive in terms of being stout calves and growth rates. Since you aren't concerned with maternal, etc. my first thought would be Charolais. Or perhaps 5 Charolais, 5 Black Simi --- then see how the calves grow and sell in your area, and then perhaps modify the sire mix in the future based on the results you have.

 

[ollie]

I like thick boned.

I'm going to limit my self to one breed.

Txag is saying(quoting me) that go see what kind of good bulls are available in your area. Look at their yearling weights if you sell the as yearlings , or weaning if at weaning. Then make your decision based on quality of what is available instead of deciding to look at Semi's for example and settleing for the best Semi's . She isn't saying look at using several different breeds.

 

[hillbilly]

There are terminal sires of every breed!
There are black angus bulls with 8 and 9 frame scores that would scare the cr@p out of most angus breeders.
I buy angus bulls from a guy that raises both types.
If you want a terminal bull you use a different driveway to find them.
He says most of his customers would be put off by his "big" bulls.
If 100# calves don't bother you, and you're looking for a black hide,
I would talk to some angus breeders in your area about their terminal sire program.


Hillbilly

 

[polledbull]

i'm going to steal a suggestion ollie gave someone else earlier on another topic. why limit yourself to the breed before looking around? a limi, simi, maine, or charolais would probably work for your cows so why not look around for the best bull overall instead of picking a breed first & then limiting yourself with that?

question for pollebull:

if i go to a breeder & pick out a black limousin bull, how will i know he's homozygous black just from looking at him, his parents or even his papers?

You have to have a DNA test done from a hair sample to prove Homozygous black . If the breeder is marketing black or double black genetics, he will be aware of it . Just ask have they been color coat tested for homo black . test usually coast $40. of course if both the sire and dam are already tested homo black , the progeny will be homo black by breeding. I hope this helps you , thanks

 

[mtnman]

Why do you want them big-boned? What does being big-boned have to do with anything? Other than making them coarse, hard calving, less retail product?

mtnman

 

[jcarkie]

in our area char cross calves sell as good as black, the tan and yellow ones sell good. on a mixed group there would be a good market for them. i also read an article about the marketing of calves and char cross with just a little ear have more places to fed out that is why they sell good.
bottom line what sells good is what we need.

 

[Jake]

I wouldn't go with Charlois, you'll have a high chance of rats or greys which rats sell horrible.... Your best bet in my mind is a black gelbvieh or black simmie

 

[dun]

I wouldn't go with Charlois, you'll have a high chance of rats or greys which rats sell horrible.... Your best bet in my mind is a black gelbvieh or black simmie

As long as they're homozygous black a simmenthal or Gebieh would work. But I'ld still use a charolais. And everyone in the world knows how much a hate charolais

dun

 

[TheBullLady]

I would definately recommend a black Simmental. We run one on our herd of straight Brahmans and percentage Simbrahs, and love the calves! They are fast growing and thick muscled.

This year all our calves were terminal because of the prices at the auction barn... except for one heifer out of an ET cow I couldn't part with, and 5-6 calves sold to kids to show.

 

[ollie]

I like thick boned.

I'm going to limit my self to one breed.

I am of the opinion that Semi's and Limi's are completely two different animals . Limi's are not nearly as heavy boned but rounder muscled. They are also in my opinion usually tighter hearted. I do think Limi's do usually seem to introduce more vigor. ( My real opinion is there is more difference inside of each breed than there is between breeds . ) I would rather have a good ______ than a sorry __favorite breed here_____________.

 

[houstoncutter]

Look for some full blood limis. Look for the older blood lines if you can find em. They will put the butts on em that you are looking for. There is a board member in here of Michele Pankonien...www.kemilimousin.com I have bought two bulls from her in th last couple of years and have been pleased... Some of the newer bloodlines such as Dauphin really have a lot of the muscle. Eastfield Farm in Tenn. has probably the largest group of heavy muscled Limis around. These types of bulls will clean up that ear look and put a butt on em.
Rodney

 

[rgv4]

I would definately recommend a black Simmental. We run one on our herd of straight Brahmans and percentage Simbrahs, and love the calves! They are fast growing and thick muscled.

This year all our calves were terminal because of the prices at the auction barn... except for one heifer out of an ET cow I couldn't part with, and 5-6 calves sold to kids to show.

Do you AI any of your percentage Simbrahs to Simbrah bulls?
Your perct. simbrah cows that are bred to a Simmental bull, there heifer calves aren't eligible to show at the major's right? Because a 3/4 Simbrah bred to a Reg. Simmental bull, calves register as a Simmental.

 

[TheBullLady]

Yes.. we do AI some of the percentage Simbrahs, although in the past couple of years, we sold nearly all the heifers. (That's our primarily replacement market)

We have some 1/2 x 1/2 females in the herd that are out of the registered Brahmans and one of two former Simmental bulls we had in the herd that I really liked. We breed them back to the current black Simmental, and get a 3/4 x 1/4 bred heifer that is REALLY nice! I've sold a couple of those at TSSA sales and they've done very well.

Some of the junior shows the kids can show percentages.. you have to check the rules for each one to see which ones allow it. If they can't show Simbrah, they can still show American Breeds Cross.