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I just noticed: Traditional vs. Non-Traditional Ranching

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IluvABbeef

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Has any of you noticed something in the latest posts with Ed's claims about Non-traditional ranchers vs. Traditional ranchers?

Unless my guess is incorrect, what to me "Traditional Ranching" means is the ranching done before feeding grain to livestock was popular. "Non-traditional" is after the fact.

Now here's the thing I noticed.

One of our self-proclaimed "knowledgable" posters on grass-fed beef said that the Traditional rancher had better knowledge on forage management than the Non-traditional rancher, or between yesterday's cowboy and today's cattleman. But, did the traditional rancher really have a better idea of forage management?

According to some research I had been reading up on, from my Beef Cattle Science book and my Range Management classes a year or so ago, the traditional ranchers had a poorer sense of grazing management than today's cattleman. This is because of the historical record of the winter of 1886 when thousands and thousands of cattle died due to lack of winter feed supplies and overgrazing. The traditional rancher didn't have knowledge of stocking rate or carrying capacity then; when he saw lots of grass, it was natural impulse to put lots of cattle on. It was later on after this really difficult winter did forage management start to change. Now I don't know the exact history of when Stocking Rates and Carrying Capacity was developed, but I'm sure it was sometime in the early 1900s, but probably not a common thing until later.

Now, to say that the "non-traditional rancher" has a poorer sense than the traditional rancher to me is somewhat true, yet mostly false. I mean, to go to lengths to explain the differences would be like writing a whole book on the subject. For instance, what's false about it is that today's cattlemen know about stocking rates and the need to store forage for the winter, and also rotating pastures every so often. What's true about it, however, is that there are a few producers that do supplement with grain if the pasture isn't enough to sustain the herd, especially with the calves (creep feeding). But to supplement the cows? I've yet to see that on here.

I've said what needed to be said, so I'll get off my soap box here.
 
OP
I

IluvABbeef

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The Grass Fed Era

1862-75
Change from hand power to horses characterizes the first American agricultural revolution
1868
Steam tractors are tried out
1874
Glidden barbed wire patented; fencing of rangeland ends era of unrestricted, open-range grazing
1880
Western Cattle Boom Begins
1881
Hybridized corn produced
1884-90
Horse-drawn combine used in Pacific coast wheat areas
1888
The first long haul shipment of a refrigerated freight car was made from California to New York
1890-99
Average annual consumption of commercial fertilizer; 1,845,900 tons
1890s
Agriculture becomes increasingly mechanized and commercialized
1890
40-50 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (5 acres) of wheat with gang plow, seeder, harrow, binder, thresher, wagons, and horses; 35-40 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 1/2 acres) of corn with 2-bottom gang plow, disk and peg-tooth harrow, and 2-row planter
1900-09
Average annual consumption of commercial fertilizer 3,738,300 tons
1900-20
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,116,700 tons/year
Big open-geared gas tractors introduced in areas of extensive farming
Enclosed gears developed for tractor
Small prairie-type combine with auxiliary engine introduced
1920-29
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,845,800 tons/year
1920-40
Farm production gradually grows from expanded use of mechanized power
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,599,913 tons/year
1930s
All-purpose, rubber-tired tractor with complementary machinery popularized
1930
One farmer supplies, on average, 9.8 in the United States and abroad; 15-20 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 1/2 acres) of corn with 2-bottom gang plow, 7-foot tandem disk, 4-section harrow, 2-row planters, cultivators, and pickers; 15-20 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (5 acres) of wheat with 3-bottom gang plow, tractor, 10-foot tandem disk, harrow, 12-foot combine, and trucks
Commercial fertilizer use: 13,590,466 tons/year
1940
One farmer supplies 10.7 persons (est.)
1941-45
1945-70
Change from horses to tractors and increasing technological practices characterize the second American agricultural revolution; productivity per acre begins sharp rise
1945
10-14 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 acres) of corn with tractor, 3-bottom plow, 10-foot tandem disk, 4-section harrow, 4-row planters and cultivators, and 2-row picker; 42 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (2/5 acre) of lint cotton with 2 mules, 1-row plow, 1-row cultivator, hand hoe, and hand pick
1950-59
Commercial fertilizer use: 22,340,666 tons/year
1950
One farmer supplies 15.5 persons (est.)
1953
“Great Cattle Bust” begins, brought on by drought, grasshoppers and fire. Continues until 1957.
1954
************Number of tractors on farms exceeds the number horses and mules for the first time
1955
6 1/2 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (4 acres) of wheat with tractor, 10- foot plow, 12-foot row weeder, harrow, 14-foot drill, self-propelled combine and trucks.
Late 1950s
Anhydrous ammonia increasingly used as cheap source of nitrogen, boosting yields
1960-69
Commercial fertilizer use: 32,373,713 tons/year




Mass Production of Grain-fed Beef Begins (1967)

1960’s

One farmer supplies 25.8 persons (est.)
1965
5 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 2-row stalk cutter, 14-foot disk, 4-row bedder, planter, cultivator, and 2-row harvester
5 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 12- foot plow, 14-foot drill, 14-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks.
1967
Boxed beef is introduced providing more conveniently sized cuts for retailers and butchers
1960-69
Commercial fertilizer use: 32,373,713 tons/year
1970-79
Commercial fertilizer use: 43,643,700 tons/year
1970s
No-tillage agriculture popularized
1970
One farmer supplies 47.7 persons (est.)
1970
Earth Day is celebrated for the first time
1971
The Maine Organic Farmers & Gardeners Association is organized
1973
Fifty farmers organize California Certified Organic Farmers
1975
2-3 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 2-row stalk cutter, 20-foot disk, 4-row bedder and planter, 4-row cultivator with herbicide applicator, and 2-row harvester
3-3/4 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 30-foot sweep disk, 27-foot drill, 22-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks; 3-1/3 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (1 1/8 acres) of corn with tractor, 5-bottom plow, 20-foot tandem disk, planter, 20-foot herbicide applicator, 12-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks
1980-89
Commercial fertilizer use: 47,411,166 tons/year
1980s
More farmers use no-till or low-till methods to curb erosion
1980
One farmer supplies 75.7 persons (est.)
1987
1-1/2 to 2 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 4-row stalk cutter, 20-foot disk, 6-row bedder and planter, 6-row cultivator with herbicide applicator, and 4-row harvester
3 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 35-foot sweep disk, 30-foot drill, 25-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks; 2-3/4 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (1 1/8 acres) of corn with tractor, 5-bottom plow, 20-foot tandem disk, planter, 20-foot herbicide applicator, 12-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks
1989
After several slow years, the sale of farm equipment rebounds; more farmers begin to use low-input sustainable agriculture (LISA) techniques to reduce chemical applications
1990
One farmer supplies 100 persons (est.)
1990s to Present
Information technology and precision techniques increasingly used in agriculture
1994
Farmers begin using satellite technology to track and plan their farming practices. The user of conservation tillage methods, which leave crop residues in the field to combat erosion, continues to rise. FDA grants first approval for a whole food produced through biotechnology, the FLAVRSAVR™ tomato. Farm Bureau celebrates its 75th anniversary. U.S. Congress approves General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), helping liberalize world trade
1997
The first weed and insect—resistant biotech crops-soybeans and cotton—are available commercially
2000
USDA unveils organic standards and official organic seal

Looking again at the first post here, no where do I see anything about the Severe Winter of 1886, nor the Dust Bowl of the early 1930s (as a result of the last 60 years of land utilization [see below]) nor when the grass-fed movement actually started up. All this chronology indicates is when mechanization and commercialization started. It doesn't look like it really has much to do with the grass-fed thing that the latest posts are about, until "finally" in 2000. But even then it has nothing to do with the Grass-Fed Movement. :?

Now as far as Range Management, here's a little quote from Range Management Principles and Practices 5th ed. Chapter 2: Range Management History p. 29:

Origin of Range Science

The exact time when the profession of range management began is unknown. However, concern over the influences of livestock grazing practices on rangeland health and productivity date back to the 1890s in the United States. People such as Smith (1895) in west Texas, Colville (1898) in Oregon, Nelson (1898) in Wyoming, and Kennedy and Doten (1901) were among the first to define the problems of uncontrolled livestock grazing on western rangelands.

[.....]

[on p. 34] The 1900-1930 period

In the 1920s, the discipline of range management flowered and developed. By 1925, approximately 15 colleges were offering courses in range management.

[.....]

The 1930-1960 period [p34-35]

During the early 1930s, the United States suffered the consequences of the past 60 years of range exploitation. Between 1931 and 1936, severe drought occured throughout the western United States. This drought was particularly severe in the Great Plains region. Huge dust storms occured over vast acreages of cultivated and overgrazed lands in the Great Plains.

[......]

[p.37]
The 1950s were years of terrific improvement in the range resource on public lands. These improvements resulted from water development, brush control, seeding, stocking rate adjustements, and grazing period adjustments. Considerable range research was directed toward range improvement by the use of herbicides. Watershed and range nutrition problems also recieved much attention. More range research was conducted in the 1950s than had been done in all the years prior to 1950 put together.

The 1960-2000 period [p.37-38]

The 1960s were characterized by considerable change in the philosophy of range management. The Multiple Use Act of 1960 mandated that Forest Service lands be managed for several uses....rather than for a single use...Previously, range research and management had been geared toward producing forage for livestock. This change in philosophy had considerable influence on how range management practices such as bush control were applied.

More was said on how the Federal Lands Policy and Management Act of 1976 provided a similar mandate as above, and more change in emphasis in range management and research from the 1970s to today.

Now if that doesn't explains things (haven't found anything about forage management in terms of pasture production yet), I dunno what will. Certainly goes to show you how things have improved over the years, and how "traditional" ranching is still traditional with a lot of improvements in range and forage management. And, you would think that with range improvement also came pasture improvement, because of the similarities between the two management schemes.

Like I said, a whole friggin book could be written on this subject!
 

hillsdown

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I do not know who Ed(?) is preaching to on here. Who the [email protected] is he calling out ????

Everyone on here ( the board and my community) I know feed their cattle grass when available and then hay in winter..DUH !!!!!!!

EXCEPT in drought conditions where hay and grass cannot be found, so you supplement with grain ...SOOOOOO you do not have to sell your whole [email protected] herd when the sh2t hits the fan.. There will be a heck of a lot of grain being fed in Alberta this year..So bad, bad ranchers..Shame on you.. :roll:

Something tells me Ed is not a real anything, he is a text book reader and preacher and needs to leave his office and get out in the real world.

GRASS is not always availave, it is dependant on mother nature therefore we are dependant on mother nature.

Now as far as grass fed beef, as long as people like me are the majority of beef buyers ,,you can have it, I will take grain finished any day. If I wanted lean protein for a meal I will eat fish..I eat beef because it tastes really fricken good, and is very high in vitamin b12 which we need to live..

Sorry in a P#ssy mood especially when propaganda is being promoted all the time.. :devil2:
 

mnmtranching

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To make it simple. Feeding cattle in the US [along with tons of things] came with transportation.

The Railroads. Feeding cattle in feedyards in the US is not new. been going strong since about 1900.

Grain feeding cattle in the US would probably be considered traditional.
 

MO_cows

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Good posts and good points made, IluvABeef! You didn't let ol' Ed's superiority complex and holier-than-thou approach get your panties in a wad. It looks like you calmly thought it through and brought forth facts to back up your position. Well done.
 

Jogeephus

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Ahh, all this grass fed business is just marketing by wannabes who just nip at the heels of those of us who raise organic beef but I won't bore ya'll with the details.
 

talldog

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IluvABbeef":j9el18hv said:
The Grass Fed Era

1862-75
Change from hand power to horses characterizes the first American agricultural revolution
1868
Steam tractors are tried out
1874
Glidden barbed wire patented; fencing of rangeland ends era of unrestricted, open-range grazing
1880
Western Cattle Boom Begins
1881
Hybridized corn produced
1884-90
Horse-drawn combine used in Pacific coast wheat areas
1888
The first long haul shipment of a refrigerated freight car was made from California to New York
1890-99
Average annual consumption of commercial fertilizer; 1,845,900 tons
1890s
Agriculture becomes increasingly mechanized and commercialized
1890
40-50 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (5 acres) of wheat with gang plow, seeder, harrow, binder, thresher, wagons, and horses; 35-40 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 1/2 acres) of corn with 2-bottom gang plow, disk and peg-tooth harrow, and 2-row planter
1900-09
Average annual consumption of commercial fertilizer 3,738,300 tons
1900-20
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,116,700 tons/year
Big open-geared gas tractors introduced in areas of extensive farming
Enclosed gears developed for tractor
Small prairie-type combine with auxiliary engine introduced
1920-29
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,845,800 tons/year
1920-40
Farm production gradually grows from expanded use of mechanized power
Commercial fertilizer use: 6,599,913 tons/year
1930s
All-purpose, rubber-tired tractor with complementary machinery popularized
1930
One farmer supplies, on average, 9.8 in the United States and abroad; 15-20 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 1/2 acres) of corn with 2-bottom gang plow, 7-foot tandem disk, 4-section harrow, 2-row planters, cultivators, and pickers; 15-20 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (5 acres) of wheat with 3-bottom gang plow, tractor, 10-foot tandem disk, harrow, 12-foot combine, and trucks
Commercial fertilizer use: 13,590,466 tons/year
1940
One farmer supplies 10.7 persons (est.)
1941-45
1945-70
Change from horses to tractors and increasing technological practices characterize the second American agricultural revolution; productivity per acre begins sharp rise
1945
10-14 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (2 acres) of corn with tractor, 3-bottom plow, 10-foot tandem disk, 4-section harrow, 4-row planters and cultivators, and 2-row picker; 42 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (2/5 acre) of lint cotton with 2 mules, 1-row plow, 1-row cultivator, hand hoe, and hand pick
1950-59
Commercial fertilizer use: 22,340,666 tons/year
1950
One farmer supplies 15.5 persons (est.)
1953
“Great Cattle Bust” begins, brought on by drought, grasshoppers and fire. Continues until 1957.
1954
************Number of tractors on farms exceeds the number horses and mules for the first time
1955
6 1/2 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (4 acres) of wheat with tractor, 10- foot plow, 12-foot row weeder, harrow, 14-foot drill, self-propelled combine and trucks.
Late 1950s
Anhydrous ammonia increasingly used as cheap source of nitrogen, boosting yields
1960-69
Commercial fertilizer use: 32,373,713 tons/year




Mass Production of Grain-fed Beef Begins (1967)

1960’s

One farmer supplies 25.8 persons (est.)
1965
5 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 2-row stalk cutter, 14-foot disk, 4-row bedder, planter, cultivator, and 2-row harvester
5 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 12- foot plow, 14-foot drill, 14-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks.
1967
Boxed beef is introduced providing more conveniently sized cuts for retailers and butchers
1960-69
Commercial fertilizer use: 32,373,713 tons/year
1970-79
Commercial fertilizer use: 43,643,700 tons/year
1970s
No-tillage agriculture popularized
1970
One farmer supplies 47.7 persons (est.)
1970
Earth Day is celebrated for the first time
1971
The Maine Organic Farmers & Gardeners Association is organized
1973
Fifty farmers organize California Certified Organic Farmers
1975
2-3 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 2-row stalk cutter, 20-foot disk, 4-row bedder and planter, 4-row cultivator with herbicide applicator, and 2-row harvester
3-3/4 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 30-foot sweep disk, 27-foot drill, 22-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks; 3-1/3 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (1 1/8 acres) of corn with tractor, 5-bottom plow, 20-foot tandem disk, planter, 20-foot herbicide applicator, 12-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks
1980-89
Commercial fertilizer use: 47,411,166 tons/year
1980s
More farmers use no-till or low-till methods to curb erosion
1980
One farmer supplies 75.7 persons (est.)
1987
1-1/2 to 2 labor-hours required to produce 100 pounds (1/5 acre) of lint cotton with tractor, 4-row stalk cutter, 20-foot disk, 6-row bedder and planter, 6-row cultivator with herbicide applicator, and 4-row harvester
3 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (3 acres) of wheat with tractor, 35-foot sweep disk, 30-foot drill, 25-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks; 2-3/4 labor-hours required to produce 100 bushels (1 1/8 acres) of corn with tractor, 5-bottom plow, 20-foot tandem disk, planter, 20-foot herbicide applicator, 12-foot self-propelled combine, and trucks
1989
After several slow years, the sale of farm equipment rebounds; more farmers begin to use low-input sustainable agriculture (LISA) techniques to reduce chemical applications
1990
One farmer supplies 100 persons (est.)
1990s to Present
Information technology and precision techniques increasingly used in agriculture
1994
Farmers begin using satellite technology to track and plan their farming practices. The user of conservation tillage methods, which leave crop residues in the field to combat erosion, continues to rise. FDA grants first approval for a whole food produced through biotechnology, the FLAVRSAVR™ tomato. Farm Bureau celebrates its 75th anniversary. U.S. Congress approves General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT), helping liberalize world trade
1997
The first weed and insect—resistant biotech crops-soybeans and cotton—are available commercially
2000
USDA unveils organic standards and official organic seal

Looking again at the first post here, no where do I see anything about the Severe Winter of 1886, nor the Dust Bowl of the early 1930s (as a result of the last 60 years of land utilization [see below]) nor when the grass-fed movement actually started up. All this chronology indicates is when mechanization and commercialization started. It doesn't look like it really has much to do with the grass-fed thing that the latest posts are about, until "finally" in 2000. But even then it has nothing to do with the Grass-Fed Movement. :?

Now as far as Range Management, here's a little quote from Range Management Principles and Practices 5th ed. Chapter 2: Range Management History p. 29:

Origin of Range Science

The exact time when the profession of range management began is unknown. However, concern over the influences of livestock grazing practices on rangeland health and productivity date back to the 1890s in the United States. People such as Smith (1895) in west Texas, Colville (1898) in Oregon, Nelson (1898) in Wyoming, and Kennedy and Doten (1901) were among the first to define the problems of uncontrolled livestock grazing on western rangelands.

[.....]

[on p. 34] The 1900-1930 period

In the 1920s, the discipline of range management flowered and developed. By 1925, approximately 15 colleges were offering courses in range management.

[.....]

The 1930-1960 period [p34-35]

During the early 1930s, the United States suffered the consequences of the past 60 years of range exploitation. Between 1931 and 1936, severe drought occured throughout the western United States. This drought was particularly severe in the Great Plains region. Huge dust storms occured over vast acreages of cultivated and overgrazed lands in the Great Plains.

[......]

[p.37]
The 1950s were years of terrific improvement in the range resource on public lands. These improvements resulted from water development, brush control, seeding, stocking rate adjustements, and grazing period adjustments. Considerable range research was directed toward range improvement by the use of herbicides. Watershed and range nutrition problems also recieved much attention. More range research was conducted in the 1950s than had been done in all the years prior to 1950 put together.

The 1960-2000 period [p.37-38]

The 1960s were characterized by considerable change in the philosophy of range management. The Multiple Use Act of 1960 mandated that Forest Service lands be managed for several uses....rather than for a single use...Previously, range research and management had been geared toward producing forage for livestock. This change in philosophy had considerable influence on how range management practices such as bush control were applied.

More was said on how the Federal Lands Policy and Management Act of 1976 provided a similar mandate as above, and more change in emphasis in range management and research from the 1970s to today.

Now if that doesn't explains things (haven't found anything about forage management in terms of pasture production yet), I dunno what will. Certainly goes to show you how things have improved over the years, and how "traditional" ranching is still traditional with a lot of improvements in range and forage management. And, you would think that with range improvement also came pasture improvement, because of the similarities between the two management schemes.

Like I said, a whole friggin book could be written on this subject!
Looks like to me that----- Ed doesn't have locks on----- PASTE and POST ! Paste and post is what we ALL do sometime or another ! Let's talk CATTLE not B.S. !!!!! :tiphat:
 

grannysoo

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hillsdown":2z5ial8y said:
I do not know who Ed(?) is preaching to on here. Who the [email protected] is he calling out ????

Now you're getting somewhere. He's calling out anyone that will take the time to argue with him in order for him to get his jollies. Nothing more than a copy/paste poster who takes to name calling in order to get people riled up to respond to his posts.

Does he know what he's talking about? All I know for sure is that he knows how to copy/paste. As I have said before, let me say again. Alan Nation and Joel Polyfacefarms are making so much money writing books and selling seminars that they don't have time to raise cattle.

So back to Ed. Where's the website with beef for sale? Where's the pics of those fine cows you're raising? Where's the pics of that fine grazing land? Where's the beef Ed? Where's the beef???

Whether it's superior grass fed or farming 50 acres in 15 minutes, Ed and Tophand have much in common. Copy/Paste skills, "superior" knowledge that can not be questioned, and rude behavior skills second to none.

All hat - no cattle.
 

grannysoo

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Jogeephus":bmrr7olq said:
Ahh, all this grass fed business is just marketing by wannabes who just nip at the heels of those of us who raise organic beef but I won't bore ya'll with the details.

Oh you ain't nothing more than a back-woods Georgia hillybilly that has been taking care of the earth and it's creatures all of your life. Once you get graduated from grass skool, then you can come back and teach us with that copy/paste action. :mrgreen:
 

SRBeef

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I had some corn that was too high moisture to combine last fall due to late planting caused by flooding, etc.

Is this traditional ranching or non-traditional?

Does it matter?

Seems like it got me thinking about different ways to do things.





I did this rather than pay incredible drying costs and buying more hay. Seemed to work well. A lot of grazing out there, good for the soil, not hard to strip and plant again this past spring.

Sometimes a discussion like this helps to get the brain cells working...jmho
 

hayray

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Terms like traditional and non-traditional, bucket depended", are terms often used to lower one groups perception and elevate another groups perception above others, they used those terms in horse training often to make someone look like they are a expert. The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was responsible for setting up modern grazing management practices on Federal Lands.
 

grannysoo

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talldog":2z527srp said:
grannysoo":2z527srp said:
novatech":2z527srp said:
I'm confused.
What year am I supposed to use as traditional?

If it don't involve a mule and wagon, just consider it to be non-traditional.
Do you see anybody down your way doing gardens with a mule ???

No, but when I'm in the garden, most people see an a$$ working them........
 

LazyARanch

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grannysoo":3t3lbhxn said:
hillsdown":3t3lbhxn said:
I do not know who Ed(?) is preaching to on here. Who the [email protected] is he calling out ????

So back to Ed. Where's the website with beef for sale? Where's the pics of those fine cows you're raising? Where's the pics of that fine grazing land? Where's the beef Ed? Where's the beef???

quote]

Grannysoo, do you look anything like Clara Peller?? hehe :lol2:
 
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IluvABbeef

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hillsdown":2jxghjq9 said:
I do not know who Ed(?) is preaching to on here. Who the [email protected] is he calling out ????

Everyone on here ( the board and my community) I know feed their cattle grass when available and then hay in winter..DUH !!!!!!!

EXCEPT in drought conditions where hay and grass cannot be found, so you supplement with grain ...SOOOOOO you do not have to sell your whole [email protected] herd when the sh2t hits the fan.. There will be a heck of a lot of grain being fed in Alberta this year..So bad, bad ranchers..Shame on you.. :roll:

Something tells me Ed is not a real anything, he is a text book reader and preacher and needs to leave his office and get out in the real world.

GRASS is not always availave, it is dependant on mother nature therefore we are dependant on mother nature.

Now as far as grass fed beef, as long as people like me are the majority of beef buyers ,,you can have it, I will take grain finished any day. If I wanted lean protein for a meal I will eat fish..I eat beef because it tastes really fricken good, and is very high in vitamin b12 which we need to live..

Sorry in a P#ssy mood especially when propaganda is being promoted all the time.. :devil2:

Oh don't be sorry HD, 'cause I and a lot of us on here agree with you 100%!
 
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IluvABbeef

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MO_cows":1tccjma5 said:
Good posts and good points made, IluvABeef! You didn't let ol' Ed's superiority complex and holier-than-thou approach get your panties in a wad. It looks like you calmly thought it through and brought forth facts to back up your position. Well done.

Thank you MO.
 
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I

IluvABbeef

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grannysoo":zrml9fs1 said:
hillsdown":zrml9fs1 said:
I do not know who Ed(?) is preaching to on here. Who the [email protected] is he calling out ????

Now you're getting somewhere. He's calling out anyone that will take the time to argue with him in order for him to get his jollies. Nothing more than a copy/paste poster who takes to name calling in order to get people riled up to respond to his posts.

Does he know what he's talking about? All I know for sure is that he knows how to copy/paste. As I have said before, let me say again. Alan Nation and Joel Polyfacefarms are making so much money writing books and selling seminars that they don't have time to raise cattle.

So back to Ed. Where's the website with beef for sale? Where's the pics of those fine cows you're raising? Where's the pics of that fine grazing land? Where's the beef Ed? Where's the beef???

Whether it's superior grass fed or farming 50 acres in 15 minutes, Ed and Tophand have much in common. Copy/Paste skills, "superior" knowledge that can not be questioned, and rude behavior skills second to none.

All hat - no cattle.

:nod: :nod: Agreed. And where's the information that he copies from?? Doubt if he will ever tell, even if he got the guts to do so.

But think if it this way folks: the board would be boring without some jackass like him kickin' around! Right? ;-)
 
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IluvABbeef

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SRBeef":2b64chds said:
I had some corn that was too high moisture to combine last fall due to late planting caused by flooding, etc.

Is this traditional ranching or non-traditional?

Does it matter?

Seems like it got me thinking about different ways to do things.





I did this rather than pay incredible drying costs and buying more hay. Seemed to work well. A lot of grazing out there, good for the soil, not hard to strip and plant again this past spring.

Sometimes a discussion like this helps to get the brain cells working...jmho

That's another thing that I forgot to point out. The methods that we use today to graze cattle in a cost-effective way are in no way the way that it was done before range management started coming into effect and proper grazing practices were highly encouraged to be practiced. Traditional or not, there are a gazillion ways to have cattle graze pastures/ranges or crop residue, each unique to a rancher/farmer's topography, climate, vegetation, soil, and management goals/objectives for that farm or ranch, so long as each pasture or range is grazed properly enough that the grass keeps coming back and the cattle stay fat and happy.

I agree with hayray, comparing traditional vs. non-traditional is unnecessary and only a means to try to be superior over another when "opposing" groups butt heads.
 
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