How??? What???

[IluvABbeef]

I know I should've mentioned this before (and I keep kicking myself because of it) but there's a calf that's being held back since August because he was so emanciated, it was sickening just looking at him, for a beef steer (he looked like those thin dairy cows). It wasn't anorexia, because he was eating, and it wasn't worms either, because his poop showed no signs of any worms. He seemed like he was at the bottom of the totem pole (or I could say lowest in the peckin order regime). He's always last one to the waterer, that's how weak and low he was in the herd.

That was in August, when I separated him from the herd (he was surprisingly easy to handle, despite him being a charolais). He's improving little by little, gaining a little weight, but he still is pretty thin. He'll probably gain as much weight as the others by maybe January or February. Another thing is is that he's the same age as the other steers you've seen me post on other threads/forums.

Some pics I took yesterday of him (yes, you are gonna wince and shake your head when you see him):

And he's also the one I described with the mange problem. Mange is under control so far, and I looked to try and see if he had some more spots. Looked like it, but I didn't want to disturb him.

So what went wrong with him?? (Or what's wrong with him, some disease or something?) Why did he get so thin despite the abundance of good pasture, good water, and the best management we could give him and the entire herd?? And HOW on Earth can something like that happen???

HELP!!

 

[Roadapple]

Have you asked a vet? Going on 4 mos. now, would think a call to a vet would be in order.

 

[Beefy]

what kind of condition was he in when you obtained him. was he stunted then? did his mother milk worth a toot? just because you dont see worms in his poop doesnt mean they arent there.

 

[TNfamilyfarm]

how about hardware ingestion?

 

[oscar p]

Worm him! Just because you cant see worms does'nt mean he dont have them.Ivomec will help with the lice or mange as you say. I'd keep feed to him. Or run him through the sale by the head and cut your losses.

 

[Alice]

This is what I would do...I'm not advocating it to anyone else.

Put that little guy in a quasi largefenced in area with shelter and feed him calf starter grower. If you have a younger smaller calf that's being bottle fed, put that calf in with him for companionship, and with any luck at all, the calf that we're talking about here will monkey see/monkey do and take a bottle also. If not, at least he should be guaranteed access to the feed like this. The calf needs nutrition.

I'd give him B12 and AD&E right off the get go, and like others have said, I'd worm him.

A couple of months ago we brought a charolais heifer home that looked to be about that age and size and was in horrible shape. She was too wild to even think about trying to bottle feed, but we managed to get her in the chute, vaccinated her, vitamined he honk outta her, doctored her sores, gave her a big sub-q shot of nuflor, then turned her out into the pen we were going to keep her in. She promptly jumped over the top of this pen that not even our best houdinis had been able to escape from and joined our larger calves in the pasture. This was right before we got rain, so we were feeding our larger calves daily. Fortunately, she was a little survivor and didn't let the larger calves knock her off the feed, and she gobbled up that dry feed and began to grow like crazy, and after it rained and the grass came up, she grazed constantly.

I truly believe the worming and access to dry feed made the difference, 'cause when we sold her last weekend, she was beautiful. And she made one very, very nice profit for us.

Alice

 

[IluvABbeef]

Have you asked a vet? Going on 4 mos. now, would think a call to a vet would be in order.

Yeah, we did call a vet about it and I think he said it might be worms, but I guess it's always good to check agian.

what kind of condition was he in when you obtained him. was he stunted then? did his mother milk worth a toot? just because you dont see worms in his poop doesnt mean they arent there.

He was a runty little thing when he first got him with the other calves, but I know nothing about the history of his mother (she's on another farm 400 miles north of here).
Yeah, but don't animals usually excrete worms anyway?

how about hardware ingestion?

I don't think that would be it, but he could've swallowed some baler twine (we already had a calf die from having a big hunk of the stuff last winter BTW), but not hard hardware that I know of because I'm usually the one who's making sure that the corral is clean (little twine, nails and such).

Worm him! Just because you cant see worms does'nt mean he dont have them.Ivomec will help with the lice or mange as you say. I'd keep feed to him. Or run him through the sale by the head and cut your losses.

Dad has been giving him Ivomec and that's really helping with the mange, which is a good thing.
And we might have to consider worming him, but still, I (and my Dad) don't think he's got worms.
And we're planning on keeping him back from the rest of the animals, to get him fattened up a bit until we can sell him at a local livestock auction (that won't be until Jan/Feb). He'll act as a bit of a "den mother" for the noisy new calves (weanlings) that'll come some time this year (no clue when though).

This is what I would do...I'm not advocating it to anyone else.

Put that little guy in a quasi largefenced in area with shelter and feed him calf starter grower. If you have a younger smaller calf that's being bottle fed, put that calf in with him for companionship, and with any luck at all, the calf that we're talking about here will monkey see/monkey do and take a bottle also. If not, at least he should be guaranteed access to the feed like this. The calf needs nutrition.

I'd give him B12 and AD&E right off the get go, and like others have said, I'd worm him.

A couple of months ago we brought a charolais heifer home that looked to be about that age and size and was in horrible shape. She was too wild to even think about trying to bottle feed, but we managed to get her in the chute, vaccinated her, vitamined he honk outta her, doctored her sores, gave her a big sub-q shot of nuflor, then turned her out into the pen we were going to keep her in. She promptly jumped over the top of this pen that not even our best houdinis had been able to escape from and joined our larger calves in the pasture. This was right before we got rain, so we were feeding our larger calves daily. Fortunately, she was a little survivor and didn't let the larger calves knock her off the feed, and she gobbled up that dry feed and began to grow like crazy, and after it rained and the grass came up, she grazed constantly.

I truly believe the worming and access to dry feed made the difference, 'cause when we sold her last weekend, she was beautiful. And she made one very, very nice profit for us.

Alice

Thanks for that input Alice, but he's no calf, even though he looks small in the pics. He's the same age as the rest of the steers (19 months). And we do have a companion in with him, another char steer who's getting better as well (had him in for pneumonia).

He's got a good bale of hay that he and the other one are chewing on (alfalfa timothy fescue mix, this year's first cutting), plus we're giving them a half bucket each of chopped barley to get his weight up abit. So there's some good feed there.

When I took a picture of him, he was just standing, calm as ever, (not wild eyed and pacing around trying to find a way to escape me), chewing his cud. His eyes are bright and he's aware of his surroundings (he was like that when I got him separated in August), and his belly's always full, obviously content from a good meal.

So, the mystery continues...

P.S. we call them calves because...well...that's what we're used to calling them a lot of the time, even if they're big 18 months old steers...

BTW, thanks for everybody's input so far, but I don't think we've cracked the code yet...

 

[Beefy]

there are a lot of different types of worms. some you may see excreted in the feces but mostly its eggs that are excreted which are microscopic. I've never personally seen any worms in cowpoop though ive never really investigated. we treat for worms on a schedule b/c we have to here. we use ivomec pour-on mostly which kills a variety of worms. in your case worms may be part of the problem but he just looks really stunted to me. i would make sure he has plenty of feed and especially minerals b/c hes obviously been lacking in something. (probably milk).

 

[dun]

Haul a fecal into the vet. He/she can check for worms or eggs. Rather then pouring money into a looser, why not just dump him at the next sale and consider it money saved?

dun

 

[IluvABbeef]

there are a lot of different types of worms. some you may see excreted in the feces but mostly its eggs that are excreted which are microscopic. I've never personally seen any worms in cowpoop though ive never really investigated. we treat for worms on a schedule b/c we have to here. we use ivomec pour-on mostly which kills a variety of worms. in your case worms may be part of the problem but he just looks really stunted to me. i would make sure he has plenty of feed and especially minerals b/c hes obviously been lacking in something. (probably milk).

So what kind of mineral do you think he's lacking in?
Like I said in my previous post, he's getting plenty of feed, but we don't have a salt block put out for him (blue; with cobalt). I'm sure the alfalfa, timothy, and fescue mix is giving him the nutrients he needs, plus the chop he's given pretty much every day.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Haul a fecal into the vet. He/she can check for worms or eggs. Rather then pouring money into a looser, why not just dump him at the next sale and consider it money saved?

dun

I might have to consider that, dun, might be worth the while... :idea:

 

[alabama]

Take the calf to the vet and find out if and what disease you have brought to your farm. The vet will take some blood and let you know if you have brought a disease to your farm in this calf. What if it is BVD and he has exposed your bred cows. Now your next calf crop may will be PI BVD calves. I think you need to know what is up with this calf and soon. Once you find out what is wrong, get rid of that money pit. Shoot him or take him to the sale barn.
This could be a train reck in the waiting.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Another thing I forgot to add was I was standing when I took the pics, so that may explain why he looks smaller than he does.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Take the calf to the vet and find out if and what disease you have brought to your farm. The vet will take some blood and let you know if you have brought a disease to your farm in this calf. What if it is BVD and he has exposed your bred cows. Now your next calf crop may will be PI BVD calves. I think you need to know what is up with this calf and soon. Once you find out what is wrong, get rid of that money pit. Shoot him or take him to the sale barn.
This could be a train reck in the waiting.

alabama: We don't raise bred cows, and we haven't for quite a while now. Our calf crop are the 6 month old weanling steers that we buy from several farms/ranches up north, truck them down here and background them for 12 months, and then sell them.

He's the only calf like that, but there are a few in that batch that we bought that are similar to him, but not as much, a few scrawny, runty calves (sorry, I meant steers), and the rest that arent like that are nice and big.

I still don't think it's worms though, nor is it some disease like BVD because he's bright, alert, and responsive to his surroundings. He's just....thin.

 

[Beefy]

there are a lot of different types of worms. some you may see excreted in the feces but mostly its eggs that are excreted which are microscopic. I've never personally seen any worms in cowpoop though ive never really investigated. we treat for worms on a schedule b/c we have to here. we use ivomec pour-on mostly which kills a variety of worms. in your case worms may be part of the problem but he just looks really stunted to me. i would make sure he has plenty of feed and especially minerals b/c hes obviously been lacking in something. (probably milk).

So what kind of mineral do you think he's lacking in?
Like I said in my previous post, he's getting plenty of feed, but we don't have a salt block put out for him (blue; with cobalt). I'm sure the alfalfa, timothy, and fescue mix is giving him the nutrients he needs, plus the chop he's given pretty much every day.

probably more than one. salt blocks are crap. get loose mineral.

 

[dun]

He's just....thin.

To me he isn;t thin, he's skinny and poor with a pot belly.

dun

 

[cattlemom]

Wouldn't that much barley be hard on his belly? Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but isn't barley really acidic. Maybe he should have some other type of feed - I'd probably choose something with oats and corn.

 

[IluvABbeef]

He's just....thin.

To me he isn;t thin, he's skinny and poor with a pot belly.

dun

Ain't potbellied also called a "hay belly"?

Yeah, he is in poor shape, but he IS improving little by little. But I think he should be improving a bit faster than that, right?

I'll get some pics on this weekend to see how he's doing.

And cattlemom, barley probably is a bit acidic, but he's been fed that since August, and there's no corn or oats on hand, unless we buy some, but barley's the thing used to fatten him up a bit quicker, around here anyway.

 

[GMN]

Thanks for that input Alice, but he's no calf, even though he looks small in the pics. He's the same age as the rest of the steers (19 months). And we do have a companion in with him, another char steer who's getting better as well (had him in for pneumonia).

If that animal is 19 months old, you got big problems. Might be too late to fix whatever it has.

GMN

 

[IluvABbeef]

Thanks for that input Alice, but he's no calf, even though he looks small in the pics. He's the same age as the rest of the steers (19 months). And we do have a companion in with him, another char steer who's getting better as well (had him in for pneumonia).

If that animal is 19 months old, you got big problems. Might be too late to fix whatever it has.

GMN

Yeah, I just learned a bit about that in Animal Nutrition class today, sadly to say.

So that means that he can't be gaining weight as fast as the calves between 6 months to 14 months do, and his feed conversion ratio is gonna be lower, which explains why he's not getting as big as fast as he is. And it also depends on how long he's been in the shape he's in and the severity of his undernutritioned-looking self.

And another thing is that yeah, like you said, it might be too late to fix whatever's wrong with him.

Uh boy.