How old is too old?

[redneckcowgirlmn]

So, is 7 months too old for castrating a bull calf, that we're planning on butchering in the fall? Thought it was supposed to be done when they were younger. And, since he is older, does he need to be sedated like a horse, or just restrained, either tied down or a squeeze chute or something? (Vet was supposed to do it a few months ago, but the booger was a little sick, so he said to wait a while... spaced it, 'till this morning when he was trying to ride the heifer.) Oh, and speaking of THAT, how true is the whole "Freemartin Heifers" being sterile? Asked the vet, who is a kinda long-winded guy, and after some wierd hand gestures, and something about "depending on if the heifer's and bull's placentas were twisted together or not, blah blah blah". All I got out of it was yes and no. :shock:

 

[dun]

Being the paranoid type and havimng lost some in years past from cutting older calves, I'ld go with one of the large banders.

dun

 

[jcarkie]

you can cut him, i would let the vet do it now. but if you band make sure to give tetenus shots i have lost a couple from that too.

 

[preston39]

So, is 7 months too old for castrating a bull calf, that we're planning on butchering in the fall? Thought it was supposed to be done when they were younger. And, since he is older, does he need to be sedated like a horse, or just restrained, either tied down or a squeeze chute or something? (Vet was supposed to do it a few months ago, but the booger was a little sick, so he said to wait a while... spaced it, 'till this morning when he was trying to ride the heifer.) Oh, and speaking of THAT, how true is the whole "Freemartin Heifers" being sterile? Asked the vet, who is a kinda long-winded guy, and after some wierd hand gestures, and something about "depending on if the heifer's and bull's placentas were twisted together or not, blah blah blah". All I got out of it was yes and no. :shock:

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If you are speaking of a freemartin as in twins. I have never seen one that is not sterile for one reason or another. Usually reproductive organs are misconfigured or absent.

If you plan knife castration I suggesst following the signs...I believe the best is when the sign is .....below the knee going down. I never gave consideration to the signs until a few year ago when we knife castrated several bulls between 5-600# and they hardly bled with minimum swelling and recoup time was short. We now do all castrations by the signs. If you do follow the signs for knife castration of this animal let us know the outcome. I don't understand why it seems to minimize the intrusion on all animals but, am becoming convinced it is the way to go.

 

[redneckcowgirlmn]

So, is 7 months too old for castrating a bull calf, that we're planning on butchering in the fall? Thought it was supposed to be done when they were younger. And, since he is older, does he need to be sedated like a horse, or just restrained, either tied down or a squeeze chute or something? (Vet was supposed to do it a few months ago, but the booger was a little sick, so he said to wait a while... spaced it, 'till this morning when he was trying to ride the heifer.) Oh, and speaking of THAT, how true is the whole "Freemartin Heifers" being sterile? Asked the vet, who is a kinda long-winded guy, and after some wierd hand gestures, and something about "depending on if the heifer's and bull's placentas were twisted together or not, blah blah blah". All I got out of it was yes and no.
========
If you are speaking of a freemartin as in twins. I have never seen one that is not sterile for one reason or another. Usually reproductive organs are misconfigured or absent.

If you plan knife castration I suggesst following the signs...I believe the best is when the sign is .....below the knee going down. I never gave consideration to the signs until a few year ago when we knife castrated several bulls between 5-600# and they hardly bled with minimum swelling and recoup time was short. We now do all castrations by the signs. If you do follow the signs for knife castration of this animal let us know the outcome. I don't understand why it seems to minimize the intrusion on all animals but, am becoming convinced it is the way to go.

Yep, freemartin as in twin to a bull calf,(not the same one I have, HE was a preemie, different ma.) So if she's sterile, can she still come into heat? Or is he just "bully"?

Ya totally lost me there with {If you plan knife castration I suggesst following the signs...I believe the best is when the sign is .....below the knee going down.} :shock: Signs, as in moon phase? (Heard not to castrate right before or during a full moon, they bleed more) and are you talking about what I THINK you're talking about being below his knees? (Then we'll have to wait for spring... it's pretty cold here... significant shrinkage!)
Thanks for putting up with me.

 

[dun]

Yep, freemartin as in twin to a bull calf,(not the same one I have, HE was a preemie, different ma.) So if she's sterile, can she still come into heat? Or is he just "bully"?

They can still come into heat and cycle, depends on how severe the damage to her reproductive parts is form the mixing of the hormones. Could be just that he's bully, if it happens in another 16-22 days and not before it's probably her. Then there is the small percentage of twins that are not freemartins.

dun

 

[BlackBaldyMan]

I was thinking about this the other day, I would almost think that it would be less stress on the bull if you cut him rather then band him that old. My thinking is yes its stressful that first day, and maybe the week afterwards but then its done, rather then that bull having a band pinch him for however long it takes to finally kill his testes and having him go off of feed that much longer, just a though.

I think its like a 99% chance they are freemartin, reason is when in the woom the testosterone is passed before the estrogen (in a simple nutshell) and this causes the heifer to not develope. Pretty much its a steer brain in a heifer body, they work good for heat detectors :cboy:

 

[redneckcowgirlmn]

Dun,
yea, it's about every 18 days or so that he bugs her, now that I think about it. Thanks for explaining that. Guess I chalk this up to "higher Lernin' and ejicayshun", as I guess it isn't worth worrying about with a critter that's going in the freezer anyways, as far as SHE goes, lol,

As for stressing HIM out, well, "Payback's a You know what!" He's the same one a couple months ago took out my electric fence, and let the horses out for an unsupervised excercise excursion around the metropolis of Dalbo, MN, pop. about 150. If I do it now, he should be unstressed enough to eat in about, october, huh? ;-)

 

[racekannon]

No problem find someone with a Callicrate bander and give him a tetanus shot. I have done both and the bander is way less stressfull, they don't go off feed and are only uncomfortable for a few hours. Also lots faster if you have a bunch to do.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Just read a paper on cutting vs banding of larger animals--

short term better gains with banding
long term better gains with cutting

I too am a firm believer in phases.

 

[movin' on]

I band hundreds of bulls in a year and they go back of feed the same day or the next day at the latest. Cutting can knock them off feed for several days. Howdy, you are right about the short term/long term statement. However, I have found that they even back out again after a while. Yes, you need to give a tetanus shot when you band one. A tetanus TOXOID and not a tetanus antitoxin. If you cut one then you should give a tetanus ANTITOXIN.