How many cows per acre?

[lmp570]

Hello from West Kentucky everyone! I am a relatively new farmer and have run into a problem. I have been offered about five new acres to use as pasture and i know the old rule of thumb is one cow per acre, BUT if i supplement about five lbs. of corn every other day per cow... and keep a steady supply of hay (will save Timothy hay for winter) then how many cows can i expect to thrive on these five acres?

This is my first post so ill appreciate any wisdom anyone can offer! God bless!

 

[lilmac]

Hello Imp570, and welcome to the boards.
You did not say what breed of cows you are running, What kind of grass do you have, and how much :?: :?:
Good luck,
Mac

 

[bigbull338]

Hello from West Kentucky everyone! I am a relatively new farmer and have run into a problem. I have been offered about five new acres to use as pasture and i know the old rule of thumb is one cow per acre, BUT if i supplement about five lbs. of corn every other day per cow... and keep a steady supply of hay (will save Timothy hay for winter) then how many cows can i expect to thrive on these five acres?

This is my first post so ill appreciate any wisdom anyone can offer! God bless!

if your going to hay an sup feed them as needed then you can carry 6 cows on that 5acs.ive got a 2ac pasture.thats going tobe carring 4 cows an 2 calves on it.just until i can get another pasture fixed for them.

 

[Jogeephus]

Personally, I would not excede one cow an acre unless you can rotate the cows off this area and let it rest. I'm not saying it can't be done but problems such as worm load and other things will cause the cows not to do as well.JMO

 

[Cowdirt]

Hello from West Kentucky everyone! I am a relatively new farmer and have run into a problem. I have been offered about five new acres to use as pasture and i know the old rule of thumb is one cow per acre, BUT if i supplement about five lbs. of corn every other day per cow... and keep a steady supply of hay (will save Timothy hay for winter) then how many cows can i expect to thrive on these five acres?

This is my first post so ill appreciate any wisdom anyone can offer! God bless!

That rule of thumb for 1 cow/acre makes the assumption that you have way above average pasture. Normal pasture in middle TN, and I suspect KY, will have a rough way to go with that ration of cows and grass. Even if you supplement them they will still overgraze it. If it's good pasture, I'd stock three adult bovines on the pasture and forget the supplement. JMO

 

[rgv]

At least figure 2 acres per pair -
The first year -
The problem is pasture the pasture will decline form there out.
No way should you figure one acre per on five acres

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

How many cows per acre?

It interests me how many times this topic has come up on this board and I see the same words used but not defined, so could you please define "ration of cows and grass" or cows per acre and "overgraze".

In my years of raising cattle there is no way to determine the number of acres it will take to raise a cow, and there is no way to avoid "overgraze" ing your pasture, while trying to maximize your profit.

Now here is another rule of thumb for you.
For every 1,000 pounds of calves on the ground you increase your herd size by 1.
(If you have two 500 lb caves in your herd, they will consume the equivalent of that consumed by one cow.)
So your herd size is not constant if you are breeding for calves.

Second, unless you have figured out how to control the weather in all 4 seasons of the year, your pasture is not constant either.

So with both factors (number of cows and pasture condition) being a variable, IMO, there is no way to determine "cows per acre" and/or avoid "overgrazing" while maximizing your profit.

Now I'm not saying there is no way to over come these variables, I'm simply saying there is no way to determine how many cows you can run per acre to maximize your profit.
SL

 

[lmp570]

thanks everyone for the replies... forgive me for not mentioning that i am raising REGISTERED RED ANGUS cows and the pasture quality the cows will be grazing is below average. needs lime and fertalizer. i will be supplementing a square bailed mix of white clover, timothy, and fescue hay, until winter, then i will go with strait timothy and gamma grass. and as i said before i will be feeding 5-8 lbs. of a Purina cattle feed.

until i can lease more land pasture rotating isnt possible.

the farm i previously worked at ran 30 cows on 27 acres without ANY supplement (the pasture was in great condition) and the grass was so still so high we had to cut it to avoid pink eye. i bet we couldve had 40 cows on that pasture without having to supplement as high as the grass stayed.

 

[Cowdirt]

Re:

How many cows per acre?

It interests me how many times this topic has come up on this board and I see the same words used but not defined, so could you please define "ration of cows and grass" or cows per acre and "overgraze".

In my years of raising cattle there is no way to determine the number of acres it will take to raise a cow, and there is no way to avoid "overgraze" ing your pasture, while trying to maximize your profit.

Now here is another rule of thumb for you.
For every 1,000 pounds of calves on the ground you increase your herd size by 1.
(If you have two 500 lb caves in your herd, they will consume the equivalent of that consumed by one cow.)
So your herd size is not constant if you are breeding for calves.

Second, unless you have figured out how to control the weather in all 4 seasons of the year, your pasture is not constant either.

So with both factors (number of cows and pasture condition) being a variable, IMO, there is no way to determine "cows per acre" and/or avoid "overgrazing" while maximizing your profit.

Now I'm not saying there is no way to over come these variables, I'm simply saying there is no way to determine how many cows you can run per acre to maximize your profit.
SL

Sir loin, I agree with what you said. I'm lazy and didn't want to type that much. By the way, "ration of cows to grass" was typo, should have been "ratio".

 

[dcara]

The best definition of "overgrazed" I heard was at a cow calf clinic not long ago. The presenter said that if you can see their hoofs and/or they have grazed the normal refusal sites such as the clumps around the cowpies, then the pasture is overgrazed.

 

[Sir Loin]

Doug,
Re:

if you can see their hoofs and/or they have grazed the normal refusal sites such as the clumps around the cowpies, then the pasture is overgrazed.

Sounds like a good definition under ideal circumstances.

When you have a drought and the grass goes away ( aka a brown out), is that overgrazing?
IMO, when you have no grass for them to eat, for reasons beyond your control, it is not overgrazing.
The fact is you can have plenty of grass this week and next week it is all gone do to a drought or an early frost etc.

Now that definition is fine for the day you can't see their hoofs and it is fine for the day you can, but overgrazing may not have anything to do with the change that occurred in-between the two.
So what do we call that?
Besides "ship high in transit" happens! :lol:

I guess I'm simply saying there are more reasons for what is called overgrazing then the conventionally accepted "poor management" reasoning.
And those reasons also have a direct relationship to your "cow per acre" reasoning as does calves on the ground at any given time.
SL

Here's an interesting read on the subject.
Go:
http://extension.usu.edu/files/publicat ... _RM_04.pdf

 

[Bez>]

Hello from West Kentucky everyone! I am a relatively new farmer and have run into a problem. I have been offered about five new acres to use as pasture and i know the old rule of thumb is one cow per acre, BUT if i supplement about five lbs. of corn every other day per cow... and keep a steady supply of hay (will save Timothy hay for winter) then how many cows can i expect to thrive on these five acres?

This is my first post so ill appreciate any wisdom anyone can offer! God bless!

5 acres?

More trouble than it is worth - hay it once / maybe twice a year and be done with it.

Make more money with hay than you will with a couple of cows.

Anytime you need to supplement cattle with feed of any kind - other than winter - you are playing a losing game. Ask the drought folks - they will tell you the costs - and it ain't pretty.

Bez>

 

[lmp570]

interesting point Bez... but you cant you cant expect to sell round bales of below average pasture around here for more than $20 per, not to mention you wont get many bales off 5 acres.

 

[Sir Loin]

Benz>
Re:

5 acres?

More trouble than it is worth - hay it once / maybe twice a year and be done with it.

Make more money with hay than you will with a couple of cows.

Agreed! Unless you run 10 cows and supplement year round.

Anytime you need to supplement cattle with feed of any kind - other than winter - you are playing a losing game.

I disagree. It all depends on your location, your operation and the end product you are trying to produce.
If all your location and operation is trying to produce is a calf of any condition it can produce by itself, then you are correct.

IMO, supplemental feeding is a necessity if you are going to maximize you profit potential.
Example:
If you creep feed your calves you can increase your herd size, without "over grazing", by about 10% on the same acreage.
And those extra calves will more then pay for the creep feeder feed, while at the same time you are increasing the weight and condition of all your calves.
SL

 

[msscamp]

If you creep feed your calves you can increase your herd size, without "over grazing", by about 10% on the same acreage.
And those extra calves will more then pay for the creep feeder feed, while at the same time you are increasing the weight and condition of all your calves.
SL

Why not just trade in the cows that cannot produce the type of calf you're looking for for some who can? Problem solved, no creep feeding needed, time could be spent of something else, and better profit. ;-)

 

[Sir Loin]

MS,
Re:

Why not just trade in the cows that cannot produce the type of calf you're looking for for some who can?

They are producing the type calf I am looking for, just not the finished product that brings the highest price.
I would much rather wean my calves at 600 to 700 pounds then 4 to 500 lbs and I would rather further maximize my investment by having them look shinny and healthy rather then dull and lanky.
While at the same time I can produce more calves on the same acreage then if I didn't creep feed.

Re:

Problem solved,

It's not really a problem; it's called maximizing your investment.
Why should I take a lesser price for my calves and let the buyer do what I can do myself and retain some of his profit.

There are only two simple rules of sales at play here.
1. When selling by weight, the higher the weight the more you make.
2. The better they look, the more they pay.
It's that simple and the cost of feeding is just part of the investment we are willing to make. Just like you invest in cows and bulls, we invest in feed to produce the product we want to sell.
BTW, we pay between $20 and $40 per ton for dry ground feed, not $8 - $10 per 50lb bag.
SL

 

[dcara]

Sounds like a good definition under ideal circumstances.

When you have a drought and the grass goes away ( aka a brown out), is that overgrazing?
IMO, when you have no grass for them to eat, for reasons beyond your control, it is not overgrazing.

Its going to be diffaclut to not get into semantics here, but I disagree with your defination. Even at its worst "brownouts" still have something on the ground. Maybe the cows or management weren't directly responsible for the lack of forage, but if the forage base will not support the the animal load then it is being overgrazed.

Not sure what you call a brown out in Tennessee, but heres a pic of one of my pastures last Aug (I think thats when I took this pic). I have other pics I took the first of June 06 that look just as bad.

http://cattletoday.com/photos/data/503/ ... 8_calf.jpg

 

[Brandonm2]

IF this is just a loafing ground......meaning there will be 3 roll bales out at ALL times 365 days a year and 5 lbs of high energy feed per head each and every day and molasses tubs out throughout the winter...then 12 pairs should be quite comfortable. Now HOW you make MONEY off of that arrangement I do not know.

 

[Sir Loin]

Doug,

Your pic is a pic of a TN brownout. But it is only the beginning when you still have something left on the ground for them to eat. If the drought continues from there on you will reach a point where there is nothing on the ground except dirt.

We have just reached that point now.
As they continue to graze they are now pulling up what little is left on the ground by the roots and eating roots and all. That is why we have now switched to plan B. Supplemental feeding of the cows in addition to the calves who were already being supplemented with a free choice creep feeder.

Re:

Maybe the cows or management weren't directly responsible for the lack of forage, but if the forage base will not support the the animal load then it is being overgrazed.

I think we may be chasing our own tail now.
What is your definition of "overgrazed" as you used it above?
Is management in any way responsible in your definition of "overgrazed" as you used it above?
SL

 

[CattleHand]

1. When selling by weight, the higher the weight the more you make.

Not always the best investment because per pound as the weight increases the price/pound begins to decrease. There is a healthy equilibrium.