how early can you wean

[uscangus]

I have to question to ask the boards:

if the cow dies in any cow-calf prematurely from pneumonia after calf have lived more than 1-2 weeks. how does the calf start to live and improve his or her chance? do cross-suckling occur from other cow that are milking. in regard to twin calves, i thought the other calf does not have a good chance to make it due to survival and fighting for milking of the teats. hence, usually, you sell the calf or calf does not make it. so, how does cross-suckling occurs if the twin calves does not have a chance. do the older calf have a better chance of survival compared to the new calf because of knowing how to get milk and source of energy from the teats compared to newly calf.

do we bottle feed them with milk replacement and calf starter with molasses to lure the calf to eat. or, is it too early to start calf starter since the rumen has not develop.

the second question is when is it too early to wean. some indicates as early as three to eight weeks. they say some literature the calf should be able to eat amount of forage for at least one week prior to weaning. i know that growth and development of rumen, as well as nutrient requirements of young calf depends of the forage and grains.

i understand that if the cow bcs drop 3.0 the calf should be wean. i know that the group should be at least 4-7 as a group to be wean.
the study indicates that a single calf has less chance to make it and growth is slowed compared to group of 4-7.

thank you kindly for your generous advises, uscangus

 

[grubbie]

The calf needs to eat, the other cows are not likely to let it suck. Put it on the bottle. What we do is feed it what it wants twice a day (just like mama does) and keep some calf starter and hay in front of it. We don't wean for 12 weeks but make sure it's eating hay before weaning no matter when you do it. Usually we'll start cutting down on the bottle feeding amount around 10 weeks so they will start eating more hay/calf starter. You will find many different opinions on this, but that is what we do and it works well for us.

 

[uscangus]

The calf needs to eat, the other cows are not likely to let it suck. Put it on the bottle. What we do is feed it what it wants twice a day (just like mama does) and keep some calf starter and hay in front of it. We don't wean for 12 weeks but make sure it's eating hay before weaning no matter when you do it. Usually we'll start cutting down on the bottle feeding amount around 10 weeks so they will start eating more hay/calf starter. You will find many different opinions on this, but that is what we do and it works well for us.

thanks-"grubbie"-hypothetical questions, if the calf does not want to drink from the bottle-where the bottle is place up so it is natural position as if the calf is milking-have you heard the calf getting milk in a small plastic tub that it is high enough without spilling when he accidentally kicked it. i know that i have to train the calf to drink downward.

thank you very much....................grubbie.

 

[grubbie]

Heard of it, never done it.

 

[msscamp]

I have to question to ask the boards:

if the cow dies in any cow-calf prematurely from pneumonia after calf have lived more than 1-2 weeks. how does the calf start to live and improve his or her chance?

In this case, the calf is usually provided with good feed and supplemented with a bottle. If memory serves, the rumen does not fully develop until around 3 months of age, so hay is not going to get the job done.

in regard to twin calves, i thought the other calf does not have a good chance to make it due to survival and fighting for milking of the teats. hence, usually, you sell the calf or calf does not make it. so, how does cross-suckling occurs if the twin calves does not have a chance. do the older calf have a better chance of survival compared to the new calf because of knowing how to get milk and source of energy from the teats compared to newly calf.

Some cows are fully capable of raising twins, but that tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Usually the bigger twin is pulled and bottle fed, along with good grain and hay, and the smaller twin is left on the dam.

do we bottle feed them with milk replacement and calf starter with molasses to lure the calf to eat. or, is it too early to start calf starter since the rumen has not develop.

A calf can be started on grain/calf starter at a day or two old. If you watch calves with their mothers, they are nibbling at whatever their mother eats at that age. Nibbling is what helps their rumen develop, but they still need milk. As for enticing a calf to eat grain/calf starter, I've found that Hubbard's AS70 works a whole lot better than molasses. It smells and tastes like licorice and, for whatever reason, calves love licorice!

the second question is when is it too early to wean. some indicates as early as three to eight weeks. they say some literature the calf should be able to eat amount of forage for at least one week prior to weaning. i know that growth and development of rumen, as well as nutrient requirements of young calf depends of the forage and grains.

It can be done, but I never did it. I always bottled my bottle calves until about 3 months of age. That is just what worked the best for me.

i understand that if the cow bcs drop 3.0 the calf should be wean. i know that the group should be at least 4-7 as a group to be wean.
the study indicates that a single calf has less chance to make it and growth is slowed compared to group of 4-7.

In this situation, I believe I would be finding out why her BCS has dropped that low - it could be disease, or it could also be mis-management, lack of feed, feeding the wrong type of feed, or a combination of all of the above. Cattle are herd creatures, and they will always do better in a group of at least two. If you have a weaning calf that is not aggresive, you can put the young calf in with him/her and they will usually do alright as long as you feed grain seperately and give them enough hay.

thank you kindly for your generous advises, uscangus

 

[uscangus]

I have to question to ask the boards:

if the cow dies in any cow-calf prematurely from pneumonia after calf have lived more than 1-2 weeks. how does the calf start to live and improve his or her chance?

In this case, the calf is usually provided with good feed and supplemented with a bottle. If memory serves, the rumen does not fully develop until around 3 months of age, so hay is not going to get the job done.

in regard to twin calves, i thought the other calf does not have a good chance to make it due to survival and fighting for milking of the teats. hence, usually, you sell the calf or calf does not make it. so, how does cross-suckling occurs if the twin calves does not have a chance. do the older calf have a better chance of survival compared to the new calf because of knowing how to get milk and source of energy from the teats compared to newly calf.

Some cows are fully capable of raising twins, but that tends to be the exception rather than the rule. Usually the bigger twin is pulled and bottle fed, along with good grain and hay, and the smaller twin is left on the dam.

do we bottle feed them with milk replacement and calf starter with molasses to lure the calf to eat. or, is it too early to start calf starter since the rumen has not develop.

A calf can be started on grain/calf starter at a day or two old. If you watch calves with their mothers, they are nibbling at whatever their mother eats at that age. Nibbling is what helps their rumen develop, but they still need milk. As for enticing a calf to eat grain/calf starter, I've found that Hubbard's AS70 works a whole lot better than molasses. It smells and tastes like licorice and, for whatever reason, calves love licorice!

the second question is when is it too early to wean. some indicates as early as three to eight weeks. they say some literature the calf should be able to eat amount of forage for at least one week prior to weaning. i know that growth and development of rumen, as well as nutrient requirements of young calf depends of the forage and grains.

It can be done, but I never did it. I always bottled my bottle calves until about 3 months of age. That is just what worked the best for me.

i understand that if the cow bcs drop 3.0 the calf should be wean. i know that the group should be at least 4-7 as a group to be wean.
the study indicates that a single calf has less chance to make it and growth is slowed compared to group of 4-7.

In this situation, I believe I would be finding out why her BCS has dropped that low - it could be disease, or it could also be mis-management, lack of feed, feeding the wrong type of feed, or a combination of all of the above. Cattle are herd creatures, and they will always do better in a group of at least two. If you have a weaning calf that is not aggresive, you can put the young calf in with him/her and they will usually do alright as long as you feed grain seperately and give them enough hay.



thank you kindly for your generous advises, uscangus

Thank you msscamp-thanks for answering each paragraph and advising the Hubbard AS70 for calf starter. i bought the purina calf starter did not do well. the cows love the calf starter but not the newly calves. after i make a creeper feed place, i will try your advise on Hubbard AS70. i know the smell of licorice is better smell than molasses. i will keep you posted. do you use a milk starter or replacement with out the antibiotic. supposedly, new milk replacement will not have any antibiotic in it. anyway thanks to all the boards, your newbie,uscangus

 

[msscamp]

Thank you msscamp-thanks for answering each paragraph and advising the Hubbard AS70 for calf starter. i bought the purina calf starter did not do well. the cows love the calf starter but not the newly calves. after i make a creeper feed place, i will try your advise on Hubbard AS70. i know the smell of licorice is better smell than molasses. i will keep you posted. do you use a milk starter or replacement with out the antibiotic. supposedly, new milk replacement will not have any antibiotic in it. anyway thanks to all the boards, your newbie,uscangus

No problem! My young calves were never fond of Purina calf starter either, and they also sorted out the milk replacer pellets because they were too hard for them to chew. It just got to be too expensive, so I switched to COB. But, they didn't like the barley in it, so they sorted that out, too. Dad used the AS70 for a couple of months to help transition the weaning calves over to full feed, and it is also medicated, so it helps to prevent things like pneumonia due to the stress of weaning. I had one bottle calf that absolutely would NOT eat grain, so I tried it. It worked like a charm! When they started eating the AS70 good, I started mixing a bit of COB into it. I just kept increasing the COB, and reducing the AS70 until they were eating straight COB.

You can buy medicated milk replacer. I always used non-medicated milk replacer, because I'm not a big fan of feeding medicated feeds on an ongoing basis. I honestly think that it leads to resistance to that particular medication. I would caution you, though, to make sure that your milk replacer contains at least 20% fat and 20% protein. Also, try to make sure that it is made from milk byproducts as opposed to soy byproducts because your calf will do better. Start him out on good quality grass hay, and gradually introduce him to alfalfa. Don't feed 4th cutting alfalfa, because it is the highest quality, has the highest TDN, and can cause bloat. Good luck with your calf!

 

[regolith]

have you heard the calf getting milk in a small plastic tub that it is high enough without spilling when he accidentally kicked it. i know that i have to train the calf to drink downward.

I've done it. It's harder to teach the calf to drink that way than from a teated feeder/bottle and it's only newborns I was teaching. So yes, it's possible but if you have access to a teated feeder I'd stick with it.
As was recently discussed on these threads, cut the top off the nipple if it's too slow - calf can get frustrated on a new teat.

You let the calf suck your fingers, lower them so that the nose is just touching the milk while calf is still sucking, then remove fingers. Might have to do that two or three times before they realise the milk is in the bucket, not your fingers - don't lower fingers too far so nose goes under milk. The biggest problem with teaching them that way is simply that sensible calves are reluctant to stick their head into a dark, enclosed space and will pull back as soon as they start to feel trapped.