How do I confirm AI calves vs natural calves?

[Sweet Grass Farm]

I have been reading the discussion boards on the regular basis for some time. There is a wealth of knowledge and experience (or opinions) on cattle. I realized that while I sit back and read the forums it would be a great place to take advantage and ask a couple questions and get valuable answers/feedback. I have discussed this topic with several other people but still have a great deal of uncertainty on the responses that I have received. Basically it is a case where I have received as many different answers as the number of individuals I have asked. I am looking for some input to see if others have had similar experiences or could shed some light.

I run two small herds on two different farms (30 commercial angus cows on one and 30 cross bred cows and 11 angus heifers on the other) I have been AIing half of the one herd. (timed with a small caveat that I will watch for heat and breed the ones in standing heat, then breed the rest of the cattle that do not show heat on time. We bred a few using Resume and Priority on January 6th (standing heat) and the rest of the cows on the 7th (time) then I put in a 9m25 son for cleanup 13 days later. I was told this would guarantee I know which cows is AIed vs Natuaral. I use one of our reg. cleanup bulls either a 9m25 son, Consensus 7229 son or Pioneer son. What I really want to know is this year I saw a group of calves come 7 days early then a little lag and some more and then a few here and there. The vet I use says to expect anything from two weeks prior to predicted calve date to two weeks after. This fall the predicted calving date was the Oct 16th and 17th on the cows. The first calf came on the Oct 10th with 6 more coming before predicted date, none on the predicted dates and then more a few days after the date and one just this week on Oct 29th. There are more that appear close and several that are a few weeks off. What would others consider the cutoff date on the AI cows before you know that it is clean up?

I know that there are several solutions but I want to keep the calving close so I don't let the cows go one cycle. I also want to make sure I know which are AI calve vs natural service. It seems the ultra sound preg check 60 days after the bull is pulled is iffy in determining AIed vs Natural from my experience. I have had some that were checked that were thought to be Natural that came prior to AI predicted date. What are others past experience? My other concern is the conception rate on that first service which is truly what I want to determine. I have been told I should be happy with 50% to 60% but I hear about others that make claims 80% and better. I like knowing what I am getting for what I am spending. Plus the cows are selected for different reason and replacements would be kept accordingly with more chances of keeping AI calves. The purpose of the AIing is to improve the genetics of the overall herd for potential replacements. Sorry for the long post but any feedback or experience would be greatly appreciated between AI and clean up I have achieved 100% for the last few years (bull is in for 60 days or less).

 

[dun]

We wait 21 days from when we AI to turn them in with the bull. If we don;t,we use a Hereford for AI or a homo black bull. Our bulls are Red Angus so if it has a white face or is black it's pretty well a forgone conclusion who is the daddy. If the color or time works out wrong, to insure who the sire really is would take a DNA test.

 

[Lucky_P]

Cows here get one AI service and are kicked to the bull.
Usually, calving date is close enough, one way or another, to feel pretty certain about whether it's an AI-sired calf or by the bull. Have only had one, maybe two, over the years that have popped out 10-11 days late for the AI date or 10-11 days early for the cleanup bull.
Of course, if the AI sire is red, and the calf comes out red...I know it's from the AI sire, since the current cleanup bull is a black Angus.
Black calves...if there's any confusion because of calving date...I can often tell if it's a Shorthorn or Simmental-sired calf, just by phenotype.

 

[bse]

I go 10 days past due for AI in your case it would be 26th or 27th, but a few days after i try and look at the calf small calf bull bigger calf i may check to register if commercial i just do what i think. Gestation tables are different so theres a little wiggle room there.

As far as percentage its all over the place, like your doing it 50% is standard more is a bonus. Some of the ones getting the 80% are breeding twice or maybe on all natural heat and sometimes just get lucky. Its still a great way to breed cattle.

 

[Nesikep]

My cows gestate a little longer than most it seems, I've had calves from about 277 days to 302 days, though most will fall between 285 and 293

Welcome to CT

 

[Jessica06]

Why 60 days??? The earlier you use ultrasound, the more accurate it is. Since we have our own, we check ours at about 35-40 days post AI. The earliest one we've detected is 28 days. We checked our commercial heifers about 35 days after pulling the bull (45 day season), and I'm confident that we got them all right. There is an obvious difference between a 45 day and a 60 day pregnancy, or even a 70 and 90 day pregnancy. Your other option would be to blood test prior to the natural service pregnancies showing up as positive. Due dates by themselves are so iffy...we've had calves 3 weeks early and 3 weeks late. Kinda hard to call it one way or the other!

 

[tamarack]

Only way to be certain is to pull tail hair and dna them the ai sires all should have dna on file. jmo .

 

[redcowsrule33]

DNA them, if you really want to know it is the only way since all the bulls are the same breed. I ran two bulls one year and DNA'ed all of the calves, I was fooled a few times on the calve's sire based on my eye. Sampling is easy and the cost isn't terrible.

 

[VirginiaCattle]

I turn the bulls in 24 hours after AI'ing. The semen won't be viable after that so you've given it a shot at the AI bull. I used to wait 10 days or more but then I started thinking...what is the goal? The goal for me is to have calves to sell. It's nice to know who the sire is but I'd rather have a calf to wonder who the sire is than miss a heat and not get a cow bred. I usually credit the calves plus and minus 10 days of the AI due date to the AI sire and those after that to the cleanup bull. If it's at around 11 days you have to just guess. There is no need to be 100% certain of every single calf in a commercial herd. In the end your steers' sire won't matter. I've started DNA testing my potential replacement heifers with the Genemax test. It's only 17 dollars and confirms the parentage. I haven't had any turn out to be from a different sire than I had guessed over about 120 heifers tested.