Hoover Dam settling cows?

[Stickney94]

Resurrecting an old thread.

1. Per the original question -- I'm looking for everyone's experiences/observations on AI sires that "seem" to settle cows a bit better. For example, Hickok and Cowboy Up have had higher conceptions for us the past two years than other sires (HD/Enhance/Future Force).

2. What are others using as a replacement sire for Hoover Dam? I'm looking at Powerball (for a direct replacement) and Broken Bow (for a similar qualities with a different pedigree). I asked an ABS rep and he mentioned Manhattan, but I'm not familiar with the bull. There are a number of bulls with HD in the pedigree (patriarch, challenger, command, alternative, etc) was curious if others had more experience.

Thanks!

 

[jscunn]

S S Niagra

 

[Stocker Steve]

Genex used to have notes in their semen catalog for the higher fertility bulls. I asked the rep how they handled lower fertility bulls? He said they get culled, eventually...

 

[kentuckyguy]

S S Niagra

I agree. When I took my AI class at UK Dr. Les Anderson mentioned using Niagara if you were new to AI. He said the timed AI conception rates with him was the highest he had seen. His exact words were "I believe you can wave the rod behind the cows and stick them with Niagara."

 

[T & B farms]

I sure don't think niagara is the next Hoover dam. My first calf SS heifers are large framed, hard fleshing, and I don't see them sticking around. High $B and big YW and YH epds, I should have known better.

 

[Luckiamute]

I sure don't think niagara is the next Hoover dam. My first calf SS heifers are large framed, hard fleshing, and I don't see them sticking around. High $B and big YW and YH epds, I should have known better.

You are one of the first people that I have found who has something negative to say about Niagara. Everyone I have talked to or every post I have seen on the various beef cattle forums I follow has a lot of praise for him and his offspring. I just ordered semen for Niagara, so I hope your unfortunate experience isn't the norm but was the exception. The one concern I do have about him is his poor $EN value, which I know comes from some of that frame you reference.

 

[Stocker Steve]

That he makes framy feeders, or that he makes efficent cows?

 

[torogmc81]

S S Niagra

I agree. When I took my AI class at UK Dr. Les Anderson mentioned using Niagara if you were new to AI. He said the timed AI conception rates with him was the highest he had seen. His exact words were "I believe you can wave the rod behind the cows and stick them with Niagara."

That may have just happened to me in the last few months. Looks like I stuck em on Flat Top and Old Hickory, maybe they are similar to Niagra. I hadn't been able to practice any AI since I took his class last spring (maybe with you, kyguy?). Six total attempts this winter. 2 possible stuck and they were the ones I felt less confident about, compared to the others.

 

[VaCowman]

It appears my luck has changed with HD in 2019 breedup. Bred 20 (on natural heats in an attempt to get better conception) and 18 took. Of the 18, 12 were heifers. I'll never do that again probably, but apparently I've answered my initial question on HD's ability to settle cows.

I love the look of Niagra females when they are young. I have not seen many that held flesh as well as I would like, and it seems in my neck of the woods, the $EN is pretty accurate on him. I certainly think he'll make the commercial cattleman money on the feeder calves. I'll probably stick with HD on select females for the next couple years. Still trying to find a suitable replacement for when the HD semen dries up. Probably going to use Rainfall on the HD calves that are on the ground right now, not sure about the next round. I like what I've seen out of Rainfall. The best rainfall calves I've seen to date were out of 7229 females. Wowzer did they have the eye appeal and plenty of growth. I've got a few 7229 cows that will be getting some Rainfall this fall.

 

[kentuckyguy]

Most of the people I know who are using Niagara are trying to have heavy feeders.
I agree he's probably not the answer for making maternal easy fleshing cows in my environment.

I will say that I think Powerball is probably a better choice if you are looking for some HD influence.

 

[T & B farms]

I found his feeder calves to grow extremely well. I just don't think his daughters are going to hold up on hot fescue and low inputs. Time will tell, I hope I'm wrong.

Powerball sure looks good. I am going to try some of him once my HD is used up

 

[W.B.]

My oldest Niagara daughters are 3. While he did increase mature weight they are not what I would call large frame cows. He improved feet like no other Angus bull I have used. His yearling and mature frame epds say he is breed avg. and that is what I would say he did here. I really like how his steer progeny do in the feedlot but at the end if the day I don't think of him as a maternal improvement sire. FWIW his HP epd has dropped significantly as data has been turned in and that is pretty much what he did here. I had what I would call avg. conception with him on yearling heifers. With all that said all of his yearling heifers I have I have kept and will sort them further at preg testing time. No bull is perfect and as bad as the feet are on some Angus cattle I would say the breed needs him for that at least.

 

[VaCowman]

Most of the people I know who are using Niagara are trying to have heavy feeders.
I agree he's probably not the answer for making maternal easy fleshing cows in my environment.

I will say that I think Powerball is probably a better choice if you are looking for some HD influence.

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again. I've got my sights on Sitz Logo at the moment. His phenotype is much like HD. There are holes in his epd's, but I like what I've seen out of him, and what's not to love about a top 1% HP EPD at 60% accuracy! He is intriguing. Has some punch out of the gate and then settles down after weaning...I think he could work for me.

 

[W.B.]

Most of the people I know who are using Niagara are trying to have heavy feeders.
I agree he's probably not the answer for making maternal easy fleshing cows in my environment.

I will say that I think Powerball is probably a better choice if you are looking for some HD influence.

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again. I've got my sights on Sitz Logo at the moment. His phenotype is much like HD. There are holes in his epd's, but I like what I've seen out of him, and what's not to love about a top 1% HP EPD at 60% accuracy! He is intriguing. Has some punch out of the gate and then settles down after weaning...I think he could work for me.

I think Logo would sire more body depth than Hoover Dam.

 

[Stickney94]

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again.

Yeah, the $EN figures are something I've been weighing as well. Then I saw a bull sell for $140K with -$74 EN and thought maybe -$20 for Powerball was "reasonable" :lol:

Sitz Logo sold a bunch of sons in their Dec sale for good money.

 

[VaCowman]

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again.

Yeah, the $EN figures are something I've been weighing as well. Then I saw a bull sell for $140K with -$74 EN and thought maybe -$20 for Powerball was "reasonable" :lol:

Sitz Logo sold a bunch of sons in their Dec sale for good money.

Don't get me wrong, a -20 $EN may work for some, maybe even myself, but I'd rather stay above average where I can. I do try to avoid extremes on the positive side of $EN as well. I have one cow that is probably a 7+ frame cow that raises a good stout calf every year, milks like crazy, breeds back to AI or atleast on first cycle with a bull every year, and despite all odds, she holds condition extremely well. Yes, she's probably eating considerably more than the others, but I can't find any thing wrong with her other than the fact she's so dang tall. I've bred her to some smaller framed bulls and her MH must be pretty potent, because she always throws large framed calves. Only thing I can knock her for is the fact she has only given me 1 female in 7 years. I may get a cane of sexed female semen to use on her and another cow that is similar in make and performance to see if I can get a more moderate cow.

 

[VaCowman]

Most of the people I know who are using Niagara are trying to have heavy feeders.
I agree he's probably not the answer for making maternal easy fleshing cows in my environment.

I will say that I think Powerball is probably a better choice if you are looking for some HD influence.

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again. I've got my sights on Sitz Logo at the moment. His phenotype is much like HD. There are holes in his epd's, but I like what I've seen out of him, and what's not to love about a top 1% HP EPD at 60% accuracy! He is intriguing. Has some punch out of the gate and then settles down after weaning...I think he could work for me.

I think Logo would sire more body depth than Hoover Dam.

I think that is one thing that Sitz does well is add depth. Do you have any experience with Logo, or are you just looking at phenotype/genotype to make that call? Thanks for your input!

 

[W.B.]

I looked at Powerball last year very hard, I just couldn't make myself pull the trigger. I love his look, but with his $EN in bottom 25%, I took a pass. Maybe once he settles into his numbers I will look at him again. I've got my sights on Sitz Logo at the moment. His phenotype is much like HD. There are holes in his epd's, but I like what I've seen out of him, and what's not to love about a top 1% HP EPD at 60% accuracy! He is intriguing. Has some punch out of the gate and then settles down after weaning...I think he could work for me.

I think Logo would sire more body depth than Hoover Dam.

I think that is one thing that Sitz does well is add depth. Do you have any experience with Logo, or are you just looking at phenotype/genotype to make that call? Thanks for your input!

I have never used Logo. I would but I have a lot of Game Day bred in to my cowherd so he is out of the question. I am breeding all of my yearling heifers to Stellar this year. It will be the first time I have used just one bull on my heifers. The plan will be to breed all the Stellar daughters to one bull when the time comes.