Hoover Dam settling cows?

[VaCowman]

I have used Hoover Dam for the last two years on a handful of cows (10 hd per year). Both years, I've had rather dismal conception. My AI conception runs in the low 60's across the herd. Is anyone else having problems getting HD to stick? I do have a few pregnancies from both breedings, but the best I ever got was last year at 30% from HD breedings. Probably just my "luck of the draw" but curious if anyone else has had this issue. Would love to add more HD females, but may have to switch to a son or possibly move VAR Reserve 1111 from the short list to the tank.

 

[wbvs58]

I used Hoover Dam on my heifers last September and only got 2 out of 9 pregnancies. When it seemed I had a problem I switched to another bull. I had 1 more straw in the tank which I threw out the other day as I had lost confidence in them.

Different country and probably different collection and batches but interesting you brought it up, I definitely thought they were below par.

Ken

 

[Air gator]

A friend warned me about another ABS bull, Absolute, having problems last year.
Disappointed to hear this about Hoover Dam.

 

[Hogtiming]

Just curious did you buy the semen from a rep or from hoover? I bought from hoover and ran about 68% on my heifers. Not sure if that had anything to do with it or not.

 

[Dixie2542]

Im glad someone brought this up...We also seemed to have had much lower conception rate with him and Blk Granite. We only used about 9 straws total between the two though. (came thru a vendor, not from farms directly) Not sure what happened but the other 3 bulls we used at the same time took very well so it made me really wonder. Maybe just coincidence or just bad luck but it does seem some bulls settle better than others... Anyone else?

 

[wbvs58]

My semen came from ABS Australia and then via my reseller so a few hands to go through. The heifers I got to rebreed to another sire all settled.

Ken

 

[Luckiamute]

I really hope this is just an isolated situation and hasn't been the norm. I was just thinking about ordering Hoover Dam semen instead of S A V Resource for the upcoming breeding season.

 

[jscunn]

Have any of you called ABS, Hoover or whoever you got the semen from? If they dont know they cant make it right? I have always heard that ABS has strict protocols like all the big semen companies. Bad Handling practices? Bad extender? keep a straw to allow the Semen rep or your vet to look at..

 

[Ky hills]

I have used Hoover Dam in the past 3 different years and we got as good of conception rate as with any other Angus bull. Reading that post disappoints me as he is one that I would have easily recommended based on our results.
On a personal note I am thankful that it was posted because I have had similar results with 3 other top Angus sires, getting anywhere from 20% conception rates all the way down to 0%. That was very frustrating seeing that there were many calves being born by those bulls and us having those results. The year we got 20% from one bull, we got close to 70% from another bull. The other incident was we got 10 straws 5 each of a very popular bull and an up and coming son, 0% from both bulls. That is a lot of the reason that I lost interest in AI.
Years ago we were getting around 90% conception with our Charolais herd.

 

[Luckiamute]

Something else comes to mind here ... maybe it's not the semen but the cows that caused the poor conception rates. I forgot about a personal experience I had about five years ago when we had terrible conception rates with A.I. Nothing had changed in terms of using the same semen company, same inseminator, same protocol, etc. When we couldn't figure out what was happening, we drew blood on several of the cows and submitted it for mineral testing. Turned out we were severely deficient for several key minerals which effect reproduction and conception. Now we use a custom cattle mineral mix formulated specifically for our area and have not had any issues since. I have a small herd, but we have averaged 75 to 80 percent conception rates the last four years using exclusively A.I., and many of those cows and heifers were bred using sexed semen.

 

[wbvs58]

Have any of you called ABS, Hoover or whoever you got the semen from? If they dont know they cant make it right? I have always heard that ABS has strict protocols like all the big semen companies. Bad Handling practices? Bad extender? keep a straw to allow the Semen rep or your vet to look at..

JS, you are right. I did speak to my semen supplier but I don't think he took it any further and because I was an isolated incident I didn't follow up but with this information now I will speak to ABS Australia and see what they have to say.

Ken

 

[VaCowman]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking ABS al all. I've had tremendous success with all the bulls I have ever used from them, except for HD. I like the bull and want some females from him, just wanted to see if anyone else had similar results with him. I cleaned up with AI on the cows originally bred to HD and had 100%. Keep in mind that this would have been on a handful of cows so don't be fooled by the 100%. Secondly, the second round of AI was on NATURAL heat, not sync, which makes a big difference as well. Not sure a 10 straw order would draw much attention from ABS or any other stud. FWIW, the other sired I've used in the past from ABS have averaged above 60% across the board for the last 3 years since I have been doing whole herd AI. This is only second year I have cleaned up best cows with AI. Last year stuck 70% of cows cycling back.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Our experience is there are so many variables - your storage, handling, prep, condition of cattle, etc. Everyone points fingers at everyone else. I do know most of the big semen houses will be testing the bulls almost weekly to make sure their semen is not only fertile fresh, but also strong enough to be viable post freezing. That is KEY. Plattemere Weigh Up is a great example. He was used extensively and then for some reason, his semen changed and is no longer viable post freezing. Deer Valley told me last week he is doing a great job when used "live" but they are no longer able to sell straws out of him.

Bulls change over the years. We had a "zero" year that was a disaster when we had a bull collected and then did not have our vet check the viability of our semen post thaw. It turns out, our small shop collector never tested the semen post thaw. It cost us dearly and we've learned our lesson.

 

[L&FAngusAcres]

I am 0 for 1 using HD. I have an extremely small sample size all from Universal.
1 for 1 on Answer 71
1 for 3 on Comrade 1385
2 for 2 on Black Granite

These were all heifers being bred using 7 day synch protocol. Not breeding on observed heats, which we will do next year with this few of cows to be bred using AI.

 

[T & B farms]

Any updates on this? I just bought 100 straws a few months ago after hearing he died. Bought them though abs and they were direct shipped to me.

 

[GoWyo]

We used 6 straws in June 2019. I know one was bred next cycle by the clean up bull. The other 5 preg checked as bred 4-5 months. I suspect that we likely stuck 4/6 or 5/6, but won't really know until around March 20, 2020 time frame. I ordered through Bull Barn and I think they got it in from ABS.

 

[Stickney94]

I'd use those 100 straws and keep many of the daughters for your herd.

Like the original post, I experienced mixed results on HD via AI. However, there are just way to many variables to truly indicate any issue (AI tech, female health, fertility, timing of AI, weather).

We had our worst AI success rate with TAI this summer. We used HD and another sire. But, we had a very good rate on second heats. Was it HD semen? Or was it because the temps spiked to 100+ the three days after TAI?

Regardless, I'd use those 100 straws and be pleased with the offspring.

 

[VaCowman]

After learning of his passing, I ordered 50 units of HD semen right away. I may be kicking myself in the butt if the same thing occurs, but he checks the most boxes for me and it was worth another shot (or two). I pulled 20 of my best cows and have been breeding on natural heats. This project is still ongoing and I have not been at it long enough to have any cycle back just yet. Hopefully before too much longer, I will be able to see if all this extra headache in a meager attempt to try and increase my conception with HD was worth it.
FWIW, we set up a handful of heifers for TAI and used Sure Fire on those. So far, it looks like we got along pretty well on those. While they are still in the first 45d post AI, it looks like we are right at 80% based on observations of heifers cycling again. (We apply back patches about 10 days post TAI and watch for heats and patches to turn) Typically we TAI the heifers once and then observe heats and breed the "best" one more time. We TAI the heifers 21d prior to the cows so most (not all read the book) return into heat with the TAI cows which helps on labor. What doesn't take to AI gets turned into freezer beef. It's tough to see some of the young girls in the feeder pen, but it's all part of the bigger plan. It has helped us to get the wet 2's to stay in the herd, and it also has helped our overall fertility in the cow herd. We do sell our "late bred" and open cows in an attempt to make the cows work for us and keep calving seasons short and make room for the replacements to earn a living. Now, back to regularly scheduled programming...Hoover Dam!

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

As a reference, we used 100 straws of him last year and i believe our conception rate was 68%. We use a 7 day timed co-synch with a CIDR protocol.

 

[VaCowman]

Congratulations, that's awesome!