High -Tech Horse Theft Ring

[Meador_m]

I can't believe that you would buy a horse without going to see it or riding it. And then to wire the money to an account... Come on people, The internet has made ya'll lazy, this isn't a digital camera your buying off Ebay this is a live animal that could potentially kill you... go check out the horse before you buy. If you can'y afford to go look at the horse then you can't afford a horse.

 

[polebender]

[/quote]


This explanation does not fly with me. Sorry to be repetitious but, why on earth would anyone buy a horse they have not seen, or ridden - that just baffles me.[/quote]


I think you misunderstood. I am sorry to be repetitious, as well, but these people did not "buy". They put a deposit down for a trial and vet check. An educated buyer will take it to their own vet to have a pre-purchase done. These are with a contract stating deposit will be given back. I have done this numerous times as a buyer AND seller. Successfully, I might add. I will not let someone take a horse I am selling off of my property without a contract and deposit. Sadly, there are too many people who will not come back. Many people have trainers as well who want to evaluate the horse. You may be a person who rides a horse once and decides to buy. That is fine, too. With some horses, I have done that as well. When they get a little pricier, though, it is worth the vet check, IMHO.

The problem with this seller is that she will not give the deposit back when the horse has been found to be "defective", unless you take her to court. But some people just don't want to mess with the judgments on someone who has nothing. You will probably never see the money again.

I have never bought a horse off of the internet sight unseen, but have done trial periods. I have a friend, though, who had a horse shipped from Missouri to Texas about 8 years ago. She still has him and loves him dearly. It depends on the seller and their reputation. This seller she bought from had a good reputation, and still does now. The woman discussed in this particular thread is dangerous and does not have a good reputation.

 

[Jim62]

There's one in Austin, too. Not selling dangerous horses, just horses that can not be ridden unless they're doped due to lameness issues. She's associated with an equine rescue group, and we suspect that she's selling horses that have been surrendered (or in the process of being surrendered) to the group. What a way to "rescue" a horse.

Don't ask how I learned this.........

 

[I luv herfrds]

Got a guy who is a "horse trader" south of us. Advertises in the local paper with kid horses. I looked at one. saw that they couldn't catch the horse and was so buddy sour that it was dangerous. I walked away and warned everyone I knew to stay away from him.
He tried to get my kids to walk up and pet a really young foal. I wouldn't let them. the foal was with it's dam and the mare didn't know us. I wasn't going to take the chance.
He kept calling a 4 yo gelding a kids horse.
This guy almost snared a friend of ours into buying one of his horses, they didn't.

Buying horses is a buyer beware deal. Like I said we got burned on 2 horses before. We checked them both over and rode both of them. What we failed to do was a vet check. would have found out that the first horse was foundered and the second horse was just flat out dangerous.

 

[polebender]

Update:

She has been banned from selling horses in the State of Texas. Justice has been served, but several people are out their deposit money. At least, hopefully, no more children are put in danger during these trial periods! I got this from a public posting:

"It is further ordered, adjudged, and decreed that, for the protection of the public, the defendant Patricia Wilson is hereby permanently enjoined from engaging in the sale, offering for sale, advertising for sale, promoting for sale, or assisting in the sale of horses in the State of Texas from the date of this judgement." Translation: Ms. Patricia Wilson can NEVER sell a horse in the state of Texas ever again. If she does, she will be prosecuted for breaching this judgement, put forth by the Honorable Dan Mills, Judge, 424th Judicial District, Llano County, TX.

God Bless!!!

 

[mams]

I am a grandmother looking for a very good, SAFE kids horse for my grand babies. Just this morning I was searching for horses in Texas and found an ad posted on equinenow "Gentle Family Ranch Horses Now Availible" equinenow horse-ad-175498.

ad reads: "We have a large variety of great family and ranch geldings availible at this time, Our goal is to list high quality horses and represent them to the buyer honestly. Many buyers are looking for gentle horses with no buck about them. Others prefer a high energy horse and do not mind a cold backed horse. If we represent each horse in a compltely honest way, we have a much better chance of getting the match to stick. Happy Buyer and a Happy Horse!"

Call Ranch Horses For Sale at: 903-742-9942

I am also one of those people that learned a lesson the hard way when I bought a crazy drugged up horse that almost killed me from a horse trader I knew nothing about, I now know this was his "business". Now whenever possible i do a search on the phone numbers and if there are those people that "talk about it" and have filed a report somewhere online I steer clear. People that report this bad behavior are doing an excellent public service by letting unsuspecting folks know these unscrupulous people are out there. I would have been so taken by this ad that i would have setup an appointment to go see what they have. So far by tracing these people I have found 4 scam artists on equine and equinenow that I would have wasted my time and money to drive hundreds of miles to find out they were scammers. Thanks for the good work citizens!!

 

[Brandonm22]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!! :shock: :roll:

Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

 

[txhrseluvr]

Mams - you are wise. That is in fact the telephone number of a bad theiving trader. I think the biggest thing people miss is that she intentionallly targets people with little to no experience with horses.

And, if you don't know much about horses you can be scammed even if you do ride the horse first. People aren't typically suspicious enough to imagine that a person would drug a horse to sell it as a "safe kids horse". Once you know about horses you understand that this kind of thing happens.

 

[msscamp]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!! :shock: :roll:

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

Amen!

 

[polebender]

Dishonesty from a .........HORSE TRADER?????

I am shocked, just terribly SHOCKED!!!! :shock: :roll:

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Folks I am not buying a bull unless I have the time to go see the bull on his home range (and preferably his dam) and I am not putting down any deposit either. If that is not good enough for the bull seller, I will find another bull seller. I buy assuming that the "money back guarantee" is a load of crap. It is the same way with a used car. If the car has some rattle or shimmie I can't diagnose and either fix or price the fix on the test drive I don't buy it. Generally, I pay my mechanic $150 to put it up on the rack and give me his opinion (mine usually waves the fee since we do a lot of biz). Why would you not take even more effort when buying a horse, especially one for your kid???? If I can't ride it, I wouldn't put my kid on it. Heck, I would rather take my time and have to pay MORE than mess up a kid's experience with his/her first horse. IF you don't KNOW anything about horses or don't have the time to drive 200 miles to the horse sale or stable, pay out a few more bucks and let a reputable riding instructor buy the horse for the kid. You are going to need a riding instructor afterall if you know nothing (and check references) about horses. To me, another $3000 (or more) is worth not getting someone in the family hurt and/or having to take away some unridable bronk from some 11 year old girl who loves the horrible thing unconditionally.

Amen!

Good for you! You are entitled to do business how you want to do it. I personally prefer to take a horse away from their home surroundings and to my own vet to see how they do out of their comfort zone. Many horses do great in their own arena and pasture, but go bonkers on the trail, arena or in another stable. I just think you are better off seeing how a horse does in different surroundings for safety reasons, especially when buying for children. Sad, but it is well known sellers will drug horses and it sometimes takes three days for drugs to wear off. It is also a conflict of interest for the seller's vet to represent the buyer as well, so it is smarter to use your own vet. This horse trader will deny she is a horse trader, as well. I have never had a problem with someone doing a trial on a horse I am selling, but unless I know that person, I am getting some kind of deposit!! Buyers can scam too, and sell the horse from under you, and they are out nothing. Some people refuse to do a trial, and that is fine, too. We just disagree on how things should be handled, but that is ok. What is good for one person is not good for another. I have seen many good transactions occur cross country, and even though I am skittish about doing that myself, I have seen it work fantastically for others. To each his own, I guess. Either way, this lady has been arrested, so it will end fine, I hope. Oh, and I do want to add that the MOST dangerous horse that I ever came across personally was one that had been tried out in person, brought home, settled in, was doing fine....then a few days later something snapped. I guess the drugs wore off, but she was a rank, vicious, psychotic mare who eventually broke a young girls jaw with a swift kick. I will never forget that mare. Her name was Samantha and she had been sold to a young (maybe 8) year old girl as a kids horse. I think the girls parents ended up sending her to slaughter. I bet they didnt have her more than a week. That was many years ago, and I was a kid myself, but ever since then I have always thought it was a good idea to do a trial. Seeing them in person is no guarantee.

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

There is people that do trust others word. Like me for instance. I bought a horse from this crazy lady . This lady told me that I would have to sign a contract stating that if I sell this horse within five months she would buy her back. The mare I got also she told me had won a saddle in 4h . When the horse arrives no contract. This lady lied just about everything she had said. She is really good at what she does. They say she was ran out of Illinois for doing this same thing. She right now is under investigation , she has been reported to the FBI ,bbb , Texas Ranger and othe places. People that I have talked to that have bought these horses first got on the horse before putting there kids on it. She has a ad going right now on Freehorseads.com under ad number #119133. Go check out what all her horses do. I did learn a lesson the hard way ,and will try one out before I buy one.

Well i reckon thats on them. Never buy a horse sight unseen. Always go there and ride it and pick it up yourself. Never have it delivered. Some people are more gullible than others. NO offense!

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

I don't understand the "horse theft" angle here.

When a willing seller and a willing buyer (no matter how stupid) meet up, and come to terms agreeable to both, you have a sale. Horses are no different than vehicles or any other merchandise--they can be (and often are) misrepresented. The trick is to be smart enough to make an informed decision as to buy or not buy. Isn't a lot of this outrage misdirected? I, too, have made rash buying decisions, and I really get angry with myself over it. But, I tend to try to keep it quiet...

Like the man said, there's a fool born every minute.

Darn right.

 

[3waycross]

Buying a horse sight unseen is like buying a cow sight unseen. Why would you?

Scammers could not scam unless someone else willing to shortchange the process or be greedy...

You would because you KNOW the seller has a sterling reputation and you TRUST them. This is not the same thing. I just bought 2 heifers "sight unseen" from someone who I trust implicitly. It does happen and it works.

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

Buying a horse sight unseen is like buying a cow sight unseen. Why would you?

Scammers could not scam unless someone else willing to shortchange the process or be greedy...

You would because you KNOW the seller has a sterling reputation and you TRUST them. This is not the same thing. I just bought 2 heifers "sight unseen" from someone who I trust implicitly. It does happen and it works.

I hear ya but I think what we were all getting at dont buy em off the net from some jo blow that you know nothing about.

 

[Double R Ranch]

Somthing fishy about this post---- Nobody buys a horse without rideing it

Sorry to disagree with you but I have heard of a lot of people that buy horses by word of the seller. Sight unseen. Even hundred thousand dollar event horses. It happens all the time. Unfortunitly that is why this lady (if this is true) is probably doing so well. Personally I would never buy a horse without riding it several times and a good vet check. Amazing......
Double R

 

[polebender]

Somthing fishy about this post---- Nobody buys a horse without rideing it

Sorry to disagree with you but I have heard of a lot of people that buy horses by word of the seller. Sight unseen. Even hundred thousand dollar event horses. It happens all the time. Unfortunitly that is why this lady (if this is true) is probably doing so well. Personally I would never buy a horse without riding it several times and a good vet check. Amazing......
Double R

Your are so right! Just had a friend buy one over the internet sight unseen about a month ago. Had him shipped from Michigan to Texas and she is pleased as punch with him. This is not her first time, either. Had one shipped from Missouri to Texas about 7 years ago and was happy with him as well. Just go to the horse forums and you will see people doing it all the time and most are successful. Now, speaking of the person that this thread is referring to, this woman allows trial periods for vet checks and personality assessments with a written contract. You are allowed two weeks to return the horse. Sometimes she will abide by this and sometimes she won't. It really depends on how you handle her. That is the irony here, people on this board are saying don't buy a horse sight unseen, but these victims DIDNT!! They were on a trial period, which is done all the time by professional horse people so that they are not going in blindly. I know I have done that and it has worked out beautifully every time. I have been on both the seller and buying end, so I know the ropes. I have a gelding on the market now, and offered someone to take him home to try him out. Now, I will demand some type of deposit before he goes, but since I am honest, if he does not work out, they WILL get their money back. Anyway, I think most people are missing the point...these horses are not BOUGHT sight unseen, they are just on a trial-period which is a smart thing to do IMHO, but she has breached her contract in many cases. The original poster misspoke by saying "theft", but I will say the seller definitely has breached many contracts. That is the problem.

 

[chippie]

Cross post update concerning the woman in the original post.

FYI, there are now 3 criminal cases currently pending against this thief and con artist. She is known as Patricia Wilson, sometimes Trish and a few other names. She works mostly out of east Texas, but has ads all over the place. Do a google search if you want to learn more about her or just go to http://www.patriciawilsonsucks.com

Anyway, the trial against her is upcoming and any of her victims that might want to help put her away can contact the Gregg County District Attorney's office at 903-236-8440. In Texas, other victims are allowed to testify in the punishment phase of a case to help convince the judge to give the maximum sentence.

The Gregg County DA, James Crittenden, is willing to speak with other victims. He said he'd be delighted. So, CALL HIM if you've been ripped off by this horrible person!

 

[Brandonm22]

.... I have been on both the seller and buying end, so I know the ropes...........Anyway, I think most people are missing the point...these horses are not BOUGHT sight unseen, they are just on a trial-period which is a smart thing to do IMHO, but she has breached her contract in many cases. The original poster misspoke by saying "theft", but I will say the seller definitely has breached many contracts. That is the problem.

I think we all got the point. It is industry practice which empowered this woman to operate the way that she operates. I view horses like used cars. You are always buying AS IS WHERE IS despite what the paper work says or what the person promises. Don't trust anyone and never spend more money on a horse than you are willing and able to lose.

 

[polebender]

I agree that they are like used cars. I guess that is why there are more trial periods and vet checks these days, which I personally do on higher priced horses and am not insulted if requested of me, either. If they are fairly cheap, eh..who cares? All animals are a gamble, and it is definitely a judgment call on how much research you want to do before you purchase. Gone are the days of taking a man's word as gospel, which is sad and makes us all cynical.

 

[cross_7]

i knew a horse trader that had a horse auction and he traded lots of horses
he would buy horses and he had several young wanna be cowboys working for him and he had a big set of pens with concrete alleys.
the night before the auction those boys would tie the horses over night and then ride them all the next day on the concrete.
by the that night at the auction you could ride them bareback, walk around them, under them, pick up their feet and so on but get them home and rest up a day or two and you had a different horse.