Hereford x Shorthorn

[Caustic Burno]

Every one thinks of just POUNDS....not how much it cost to put on that pound...Hereford and Shorthorn are the most economic converters of all breeds proved time and time again in trials... both are the top foundation females you can get.. cross them for your females and then cross them wit a GOOD PURE terminal beef sire ..Charolais or limousin and you will be hard pushed to beat that cross

You prove my point it takes a 3 way calf with some continental or brimmer blood before you have a calf worth marketing. You are right if you are if you are putting the F-1 heifers in a terminal operation. To be raising the F-1 cross to market your losing money and raising a crap calf.
I am running Angus over Herf it is a horrible cross for pounds, I have a market for the heifers at a premium. I would prefer to market Brahman/Hereford heifers but you get hammered on the steers.

 

[cswalwin]

I agree...F1 cross with terminal BEEF.....but today so many of those Terminal sires are NOT PURE so the buyer looses that Hybrid vigour that is so important!!!! HOW PURE ARE YOU PEDIGREE BREEDERS KEEPING THOSE BULLS???? Some are but "BUYER BEWARE" there are a lot of watered down genetics out there trying to be PURE ..My one national artical asked "What do Angus ,Simmental,Limousin,South Devon ,Gelbvieh etc: all have in common?" Answer:- according to breeders they all come in 'BLACK'.. Look back at the breed origonals only angus ARE Black.!!! so what are these Black fakes?

 

[dun]

I agree...F1 cross with terminal BEEF.....but today so many of those Terminal sires are NOT PURE so the buyer looses that Hybrid vigour that is so important!!!! HOW PURE ARE YOU PEDIGREE BREEDERS KEEPING THOSE BULLS???? Some are but "BUYER BEWARE" there are a lot of watered down genetics out there trying to be PURE ..My one national artical asked "What do Angus ,Simmental,Limousin,South Devon ,Gelbvieh etc: all have in common?" Answer:- according to breeders they all come in 'BLACK'.. Look back at the breed origonals only angus ARE Black.!!! so what are these Black fakes?

At leats some of them are Holstein based, that was a popular cross when the breeding up of Simmenthals started.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree...F1 cross with terminal BEEF.....but today so many of those Terminal sires are NOT PURE so the buyer looses that Hybrid vigour that is so important!!!! HOW PURE ARE YOU PEDIGREE BREEDERS KEEPING THOSE BULLS???? Some are but "BUYER BEWARE" there are a lot of watered down genetics out there trying to be PURE ..My one national artical asked "What do Angus ,Simmental,Limousin,South Devon ,Gelbvieh etc: all have in common?" Answer:- according to breeders they all come in 'BLACK'.. Look back at the breed origonals only angus ARE Black.!!! so what are these Black fakes?

That was before those 1200 pound Angus bulls went to 2000 + overnight. Simm's are red and white, Maine's are red and white, Limm's are red Gel's are red and so on the black ones are Angus genetic's. The way I see it it I am going black I don't want septic tank genetic's. I had to look hard to find an Angus breeder around here running what is Angus IMO.
When a dollar bill is involved ethic's go out the window or the breed associations wouldn't have allowed it.

 

[angusdave63]

Caustic i agree with you 100 percent on these so called black cattle. i really feel like they are doing more harm than good adding all that angus blood into there breeds. Each breed adds something to our industry and when they water it down with angus they take those things away.

 

[R.N.Reed]

Speaking to the pounds subject,the last time I checked the across breed epd tables there were not many breeds with a higher adjustment factor for weaning and yearling epd's than the Shorthorn.
On the purity subject,I am a strong believer that the more pure and tightly bred the components are in a crossbreeding program, the more bang for the buck.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Speaking to the pounds subject,the last time I checked the across breed epd tables there were not many breeds with a higher adjustment factor for weaning and yearling epd's than the Shorthorn.
On the purity subject,I am a strong believer that the more pure and tightly bred the components are in a crossbreeding program, the more bang for the buck.

Crossing English cattle is just nut's unless you are raising an F-1 for sale or to retain for a terminal bull.
Angus, Shorthorn,and Herefords produce the least pounds in a crosbreeding system to run across the scales.

 

[R.N.Reed]

Caustic, Your statement is quite a generalization that may have been truer in the 60's and 70's but not so much today.
The argument has also changed, the most is meaningless and return over inputs is what matters.That is why cattlemen are starting to look at the Shorthorn and Hereford again.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Caustic, Your statement is quite a generalization that may have been truer in the 60's and 70's but not so much today.
The argument has also changed, the most is meaningless and return over inputs is what matters.That is why cattlemen are starting to look at the Shorthorn and Hereford again.

I like Hereford's and Shorthorn's but why cross the two to give you lighter weight calves at weaning no matter the input's ole Belle just put less foldin money in your wallet. It's about pounds across the scales at weaning and that cross can't keep up. Now put some Brimmer or Char in there and you have a calf to sell that will mash down the scales.
Seems pretty recent to me.
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 152web.pdf

 

[JustSimmental]

I too agree about Caustic's statement--- I don't know about you, but "we" are in the quality pounds beef business and NOT the quantity pounds business. But those crosses you mentioned will provide wally world and mickey D's with their Select burgers.

I like Shorthorns a lot, except their birth weights, their bone and their frame is going in the wrong direction, I think, for economically efficient production goals.
I would rather have SH mamas and use a Herf Sire.
This cross would improve BW's fine tune MM, decrease Frame/Bone, while still producing a good carcass that will beat the "brimmer" and "char" carcasses all the way past laura's lean beef.

The terminal cross Sire would be a shot in the dark--I wouldn't go with Charolais, because again you are headed off in the wrong direction for carcass quality and FS. "Brimmer" is a definate NO.
I think I would go then with PB Blk Angus Sires for carcass quality because after all we are really in the quality pounds business and not the quantity pounds beef business.
JS

Caustic, Your statement is quite a generalization that may have been truer in the 60's and 70's but not so much today.
The argument has also changed, the most is meaningless and return over inputs is what matters.That is why cattlemen are starting to look at the Shorthorn and Hereford again.

I like Hereford's and Shorthorn's but why cross the two to give you lighter weight calves at weaning no matter the input's ole Belle just put less foldin money in your wallet. It's about pounds across the scales at weaning and that cross can't keep up. Now put some Brimmer or Char in there and you have a calf to sell that will mash down the scales.
Seems pretty recent to me.
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 152web.pdf

 

[KMacGinley]

Caustic, Your statement is quite a generalization that may have been truer in the 60's and 70's but not so much today.
The argument has also changed, the most is meaningless and return over inputs is what matters.That is why cattlemen are starting to look at the Shorthorn and Hereford again.

I like Hereford's and Shorthorn's but why cross the two to give you lighter weight calves at weaning no matter the input's ole Belle just put less foldin money in your wallet. It's about pounds across the scales at weaning and that cross can't keep up. Now put some Brimmer or Char in there and you have a calf to sell that will mash down the scales.
Seems pretty recent to me.
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare ... 152web.pdf

Well, since angus and herefords regularly beat Simmental, and other continentals at the test stations, and I have personally seen the performance of RN Reeds shorthorns, I really don't think that the old thinking about performance of british cattle is relevant today. I would not personally use anything from ABS or select sires, mainline performance/carcass type breeding as there is too much performance there. Most performance bred British cattle blow most everything else out of the water if that is what you are looking for. As for most Shorthorns, they are pretty much crossed up with some continental breed or the other. Instant heterosis.

 

[R.N.Reed]

I would add to Kmac's last sentence, not all Shorthorns are crossed up.I would also say that the ASA provided an avenue for breeders to do it legitamatley so that cattlemen could make a knowledgeable purchase or breeding decision by looking at the pedigree.I am not so naive as to say that some stuff was not put in through the back door but at least our breed had a front door.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would add to Kmac's last sentence, not all Shorthorns are crossed up.I would also say that the ASA provided an avenue for breeders to do it legitamatley so that cattlemen could make a knowledgeable purchase or breeding decision by looking at the pedigree.I am not so naive as to say that some stuff was not put in through the back door but at least our breed had a front door.

Now that was an honest response IMO, if I was ever in the market for a S/H this is the kind of breeder you want to deal with.
To many of today's cattlemen are being sold smoke and mirror's again that's my opinon on the breeds.

 

[Julian]

On the purity subject,I am a strong believer that the more pure and tightly bred the components are in a crossbreeding program, the more bang for the buck.

Excellent!

Imagine going to a party where there's a punch bowl. As more people enjoy the punch there is the need to add some to the bowl. Instead of adding more of the same punch to replenish the bowl. It's refilled with an absolutely fabulous dark, imported beer because it is the hottest and trendiest thing going, so it must be good right? Someone from the party notices this and tells you that they are a big fan of XXX drink and they just can't get enough if it, so you add in a pint if XXX because that is what your guests want, right? Then another guest sees you adding the XXX and tells you that if people Luke XXX then they will absolutely go batflip crazy for YYY, so to keep your guests happy you add in a pint of YYY. Has to be good right? After all that is what your party attendees are wanting. And it goes on and on until you initially enjoyed punch has morphed itself into a barrel of swill and you wonder why people are leaving your party with a bad taste in their mouth.

Anyone see some similarities over the past 50 years with the punch (breed/s) that sed to be the life of their party?

 

[R.N.Reed]

Thank You for your comments Caustic,I knew we could come together with old Hoss lookin over our conversation.I will even go as far as saying that ''Brimmer'' influence is crucial in a crossbreeding program in the deep south!Gerts and Beefmasters of course! Getting back to the subject at hand,I saw a nice herd of roan whiteface cattle in an old Roy Rogers movie a couple weeks ago.

 

[dun]

Anyone see some similarities over the past 50 years with the punch (breed/s) that sed to be the life of their party?

Rahter then adding different beverages I think a lot of the breeding in the beef industry is more like turds in the punch bowl.

 

[mlazyj]

I think the cross would be simular to making Baldies , If your not looking to make cows I don't think I would do it . Not that I have anything against either breed standing on there own . The biggest problem I see with Shorty's is they have bastardised by the club calf world . If you can get a true commercial Shorty you've got a good cow.

We've shipped several thousand head of calves this past week . Mostly straight Angus , the steers all have been weighing up the same . This morning we shipped for another neighbor who has had a Hereford herd for years , they have been running some black bulls the last couple years cause that is the trend to go straight black . Lo and behold their calves averaged 25 #'s heavier then everyone elses . These folks do nothing special and kind of run on a shoe string , but that's the reality of the scale .

Randi spent the last 2 weeks hauling hay out of McCord

 

[angusdave63]

i used a shorthorn bull on a few cows last summer, and i can see a real diffrence in the calves, from both the reg herfy and reg angus cows. over the purebred calves and the bull came from a 3rd generation shorthorn breeder. the bull was a little lazy about breeding but he did throw good calves. the low libdo is why i went with a red poll. and i will say there is nothing wrong with his libido. so in my opinon at least on these eastern corn belt cattle herds, there is nothing wrong with all english genetics. bot most of these herds are less than 50 cows. so most people just sell there calves at the sale barn and move on.

 

[R.N.Reed]

Cowgirlboots,If you do your homework and find a Shorthorn bull that compliments your cow herd,I believe you will be well satisfied with the cross and even happier if you retain females to go into your herd.I have said on here before that a herd of roan whiteface cattle was what finally convinced me to breed Shorthorns after seeing what they had done in some other crossing scenarios as well.
Harold Bertz,Rob Sneed,and Bill Betteridge are real world longtime breeders near you and they would be very helpful to you in finding the right bull to meet your needs

 

[randiliana]

I think the cross would be simular to making Baldies , If your not looking to make cows I don't think I would do it . Not that I have anything against either breed standing on there own . The biggest problem I see with Shorty's is they have bastardised by the club calf world . If you can get a true commercial Shorty you've got a good cow.

We've shipped several thousand head of calves this past week . Mostly straight Angus , the steers all have been weighing up the same . This morning we shipped for another neighbor who has had a Hereford herd for years , they have been running some black bulls the last couple years cause that is the trend to go straight black . Lo and behold their calves averaged 25 #'s heavier then everyone elses . These folks do nothing special and kind of run on a shoe string , but that's the reality of the scale .

Randi spent the last 2 weeks hauling hay out of McCord

Well, that's my little town. What crossing are you south of?