herd bull prices

[KNERSIE]

WHat was his SC?

 

[KNERSIE]

I agree also however if you are a seedstock producer it still begs the question. What to do for a cleanup bull? To me, if you are not investing in the best genetics you can afford there also you are losing ground on the rest of the herd that does not take to the AI.

If you want to sell seedstock and cannot produce a bull good enough for own use you'll be better off not to sell those that you have produced.

Was not talking about your program, I was talking about seedstock producers in general. Not willing to try your own genetics whilst you're more than happy to sell them is a universal problem.

The fact of the matter is your own bulls bred out of your best cows will more likely than not outproduce most AI sires at your place, they will certainly leave more useable daughters behind than the bull that won in Denver.

With this I am not saying no-one should ever use the hot thing of the moment, names help sell bulls, but don't use every new hot bull to try and build your own herd from. Commercial customers want to buy unrelated bulls and if you don't bring in new blood (even if its just for terminal use) how are you going to meet that demand?

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'd have to ask my nephew what he measured. Change in a bull battery just for the sake of change isn't always good-I like to find groups of half brothers to buy for customers. We have a group of 165 F1 baldies that the same group of 5 half brothers will stay with throughout their production cycle-when the ranch I'm working with goes to market the 3/4 AN/1/4 HH heifers off them we can predict to some extent what kind of cows they'll make. Some of the better herds I buy bulls from have gone back to using their own bulls A'I as the mainstream industry is not meeting their needs. Most good herds are more worried about taking a step back than making a giant leap forward. I think at times we confuse 'best' with 'most popular'-I used to shudder when a customer would want to know what the 'hot' bull was to breed his sale heifers too. Commercial men and astute purebred breeders use the heck out of good cattle-the rest chase rainbows to some extent.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

WHat was his SC?

Knersie I will have to go back in my records to dig up a yearling scrotal.

Cory may have a mature scrotal on him some where.

He was sired by Bieber Chiefton 3080, and out of a Bukkalo Creek VC Chief 105, the same sire as Glacier Logan.

 

[KNERSIE]

I'd have to ask my nephew what he measured. Change in a bull battery just for the sake of change isn't always good-I like to find groups of half brothers to buy for customers. We have a group of 165 F1 baldies that the same group of 5 half brothers will stay with throughout their production cycle-when the ranch I'm working with goes to market the 3/4 AN/1/4 HH heifers off them we can predict to some extent what kind of cows they'll make. Some of the better herds I buy bulls from have gone back to using their own bulls A'I as the mainstream industry is not meeting their needs. Most good herds are more worried about taking a step back than making a giant leap forward. I think at times we confuse 'best' with 'most popular'-I used to shudder when a customer would want to know what the 'hot' bull was to breed his sale heifers too. Commercial men and astute purebred breeders use the heck out of good cattle-the rest chase rainbows to some extent.

I agree, I have quite a few customers who is happy to let me just deliver a bull, for those I do what I believe to be best for me would also be best for them, but every so often you get someone who wants something completely different because he has heard somewhere about inbreeding depression. Its usually hopeless to try and explain to him that using a half brother or even further away from his previous bull on a completely unrelated set of cows is going to do more harm than good, then you might as well have a few ready that will fit his idea of the right thing, you as breeder just have to make sure you still give him something of the right type that will also get the job done even though it might not have been your first choice for him.

 

[Brandonm22]

Maybe you meant to choose ONE of 5 or 6 bulls?

I would think there is some benefit to more uniformity especially in a herd of 30 cows. Either through use of one bull or one AI sire. Breeding 30 cows to 5 or 6 different bulls aren't you likely to end up with a number of different types and sizes of calves? A uniform calf crop and herd, along the lines of what you are working towards, seems like it is better than a mix of different types.

Jim

The breed association can not use your data for EPDs if only one bull is involved. You have to use a minimum of two bulls and one of those has to be used in another herd someplace for meaningful EPDs to be calculated. Another argument FOR AI is that if you need to AI a few cows for the EPDs it really is not a lot more work to AI 5 cows in a 30 cow herd than it is to AI all 30 cows. If you breed all of your cows to ONE name bull you will inevitably get that cowboy who for some reason doesn't like EXT (disposition), 036 (butt), Objective (picture), Emblazon (growth), and you just lost a sale (ditto if that bull becomes unfashionable) AND using different bloodlines protects you from the unlikely event of something like the Precision disaster.

And as far as cleanup bulls are concerned, if you synchronized the herd, most of the open cows are going to show up 15 to 25 days after the AI so heatchecking them for the opens is not all that difficult or time consuming especially in a 30 cow herd.

 

[SRBeef]

Brandon,

I see your points and your viewpoint. I am in a completely different market and have a different set of wants and needs in my calves. Thanks for the explanation.

Jim

 

[SRBeef]

...Its usually hopeless to try and explain to him that using a half brother or even further away from his previous bull on a completely unrelated set of cows is going to do more harm than good...

Harley, I just dont understand this statement at all but want to. Especially since I am using a half-brother (to my previous bull) bull on a set of unrelated cows! And I'd like to use him on a couple heifers from my last bull. Help please.

Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

...Its usually hopeless to try and explain to him that using a half brother or even further away from his previous bull on a completely unrelated set of cows is going to do more harm than good...

Harley, I just dont understand this statement at all but want to. Especially since I am using a half-brother (to my previous bull) bull on a set of unrelated cows! And I'd like to use him on a couple heifers from my last bull. Help please.

Jim

Just a typo on my part

was meant to be do more good than harm

 

[SRBeef]

Whew! Thank you.

By the way thanks also for the injectable Ivomec suggestion. My vet agreed that was the better choice over pour on and also get it done before they start dropping calves.

I owe you a beer or pop some time.

Jim

 

[KNERSIE]

I'll take you up on that some day!

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'm pretty excited about the potential in the breeding program we've designed at this ranch. Were breeding about 750 females this year so have enough numbers to work with.

 

[KNERSIE]

I'm pretty excited about the potential in the breeding program we've designed at this ranch. Were breeding about 750 females this year so have enough numbers to work with.

Numbers always help, one of the things I enjoy most about breeding cattle is that doesn't matter how old you are there is excitement every year.

 

[Dylan Biggs]

WHat was his SC?

Knersie, His scrotal when he was semen tested before he sold was 35 cms. He was a May 5 calf,and, was developed on a very moderate plain of nutrition post wean for his first winter, just free choice medium quality hay and then was grassed the following summer. His weight off grass was 979 lbs. Had he been developed more aggresively his scrotal would have reflected the better nutrition. As you can see in the photo though his slow gradual developement didn't prevent him from maturing adequately.

 

[KNERSIE]

I've developed many bulls on forage only and know they will mature just fine. I would have expected him to measure bigger given his mature size. It would be interesting to know what he measured as a mature bull.

 

[bigbull338]

from everything ive learned since ive been in beefmasters a 35cm sc on a bull is minium.most breeding age bulls are 38cm to 43cm.

 

[3waycross]

from everything ive learned since ive been in beefmasters a 35cm sc on a bull is minium.most breeding age bulls are 38cm to 43cm.

35cm @ what age.

 

[KNERSIE]

35cm at 12 months is more than adequate for any breed, its quite impressive for a forage raised bull.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'm guessing he was around 45-47 cms. Rumour has it Dylan is going to use him on the Quantum Physical daughters which should make some sound little grass tanks.

 

[bigbull338]

35cm as a yearling bull.anything under that at that age should go to the sale barn.