highgrit
Well-known member
How many cows will a top of the line commercial bull be able to breed. Most of the ones I've seen don't look like they would work very hard. To big and fat or just to muscular.
herd bull prices
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Northern Rancher
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This bull settled 65 out of 70 cows he ran with.
This bull bred 63 out of 75 heifers.
They are half brothers. Unless you are running in thick bush with lots of water so the cows scatter a good bull in our country should be able to breed a minimum of 40 cows. When I got sick I rented a couple feed pail softies and they didn't breed hardly anything and died doing it. One way I'll test a young bull is to dump him out with a big group of cows a week before my scheduled turn out and let him have at it. It's amazing how many cows a sound athletic bull can breed-it makes you realize how wrong it is to overfeed a breeding animal.
This old bull could breed a pile of cows-I think we got 75 off him the next year.
SRBeef
Well-known member
NR,
Impressive bulls.
What sort of time period/calving window do you have for those 60-70 cows or heifers?
Thanks for the pictures.
Jim
Impressive bulls.
What sort of time period/calving window do you have for those 60-70 cows or heifers?
Thanks for the pictures.
Jim
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
They should be done in 50 or so days I imagine. Last year was a pretty good grass year not so good in the bottom picture. I don't feed any mineral so probably losing out a few % on breds. We exposed every heifer born so some rinky dinks didn't get bred.
highgrit
Well-known member
Thanks, now them look like working bulls. How old is the cow in the last pitcure? How many years can they keep covering that many cows? And do you cull the cows that don't settle? Looks like you pretty much have it figured out Northern Rancher.
kenny thomas
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What breed are they? Looks like some Simi type calves in the picture. I do like them.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
The bull in the bottom pic is 7 and the cow is a first calf heifer whose calf was eating her alive in the drought. We usually sell drys but right after BSE when they were worthless we kept some over. The odd time we use some as recips too. The longest I've used a bull or should I say I used him till he was six then my nephew ran him till he was 13 was this red angus.
He came from Dylan Biggs as did the top two bulls. The old red bull was still going strong till he got a bit crippled in a bull fight-the vet was always talking bought his semen quality. He was truly a bull could winter on snowballs and promises. I've got a bit of semen froze on him that I hope to manufacture a son or so off of.
He came from Dylan Biggs as did the top two bulls. The old red bull was still going strong till he got a bit crippled in a bull fight-the vet was always talking bought his semen quality. He was truly a bull could winter on snowballs and promises. I've got a bit of semen froze on him that I hope to manufacture a son or so off of.
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
The red calves are off this clean up bull I raised he's out of Leachman Body Builder and a BC Hobo 1961 daughter. We have a few South Devon cross cows too.
redcowsrule33
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What was the breeding behind that RA bull? Looks like he could settle cows 2 pastures over! 
Brandonm22
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TexasBred":27wm15tp said:
I don't know that it would be necessarily "breeding down" but if you have 30 registered cows you can AI them to 5 or 6 of the most heavily promoted sires in their breed for ~$55 to $43 per calf (ABS Chart pg 109) versus buying an unproven bull near the top end of a bull sale for $4500 for $76.37 per calf. Figuring $500 a year in feed resources and upkeep and keeping the bull for three years then salvaging a $1000 out of him. AI lets you use a bull AFTER he has hundreds of calves on the ground and data reported to the breed association versus gambling on a virgin bull with no calves to evaluate. Also in the registered business you get to ride some on the promotional costs that the bull breeder and the AI stud are putting out there versus promoting your own bull yourself. It just seems a whole lot more cost effective to AI most registered cows given what bull prices are currently bringing.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Couldn't agree with you more. :nod:
SRBeef
Well-known member
Brandonm22":103ndx5q said:
Maybe you meant to choose ONE of 5 or 6 bulls?
I would think there is some benefit to more uniformity especially in a herd of 30 cows. Either through use of one bull or one AI sire. Breeding 30 cows to 5 or 6 different bulls aren't you likely to end up with a number of different types and sizes of calves? A uniform calf crop and herd, along the lines of what you are working towards, seems like it is better than a mix of different types.
Jim
I agree also however if you are a seedstock producer it still begs the question. What to do for a cleanup bull? To me, if you are not investing in the best genetics you can afford there also you are losing ground on the rest of the herd that does not take to the AI.
SRBeef
Well-known member
yes, as a non-AI person I forgot about the cleanup bull. If you have a herd of 30 cows and 1/3 of them don't take the AI the first time what do you do? Try again at which time your calving time window just got wider and now 3 of them don't take...
If you have 30 cows and have to have a cleanup bull anyway, why not make him your primary bull? Spend a little more and get a tight calving window and more uniform calves. Then you can spend a bit more on a bull and let him do the work. You are paying to maintain a bull anyway. jmho.
Obviously a different situation in a larger herd where having AI AND a cleanup bull may make sense. Also may be different for somone selling registered stock that feels they need name bulls or genetics to sell.
Jim
If you have 30 cows and have to have a cleanup bull anyway, why not make him your primary bull? Spend a little more and get a tight calving window and more uniform calves. Then you can spend a bit more on a bull and let him do the work. You are paying to maintain a bull anyway. jmho.
Obviously a different situation in a larger herd where having AI AND a cleanup bull may make sense. Also may be different for somone selling registered stock that feels they need name bulls or genetics to sell.
Jim
KNERSIE":2tww000d said:
I am just over 3 years into this program. How would you suppose I would have accomplished that at this point.
My goal is to primarily make Balancer bulls to sell to commercial cattlemen. In order to do that I have to own a Low PAPing Angus bull, without simultainously owning a herd of low papping Angus cows it makes much more sense for me to buy the best quality Angus bull that I can afford for a cleanup bull. The fact that he PAP'd a 38 and has outstanding Calving ease is just a bonus for me. If one of my cows produces a bull with him then I have a highly saleable product.
I will ocassionally have a purebred GV bull to sell mostly as a result of AI'ing my better purebred cows to purebred bulls trying to create replacement heifers. However that is not my primary goal. I also am not planning on keeping Balancer cows for my cowherd since I am limited as to the number of cows I can keep overall at this point, so if I am not doing that then there is no point in keeping a balancer or purebred bull.
Kingfisher
Well-known member
That Bull is all about the business! Seriously.......that's all you got to say about that Bull?? lolKNERSIE":65xduppe said:
Northern Rancher
Well-known member
The red bull was sired by Bieber Chiefdom 3108 and was out of a Buffalo Creek Vaquerro Chief 105 daughter. The year I bought him I think Dylan had a 100 or so bulls on his forage test-guess where Kit got the idea lol. I actually bought him more on the strength of his mother she was a really good footed red angus cow and neat uddered-I'm guessing she weighed 1150#. That old bull was never fed grain in his life-my nephew had to winter him away from the rest of the modern bulls he had to grain or he'd get too fat. Dylan has a whole pasture full of bulls just like him.
