help with feeding

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casey k

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Marshfield, missouri
my granddad is turning over his farm to me next year and im needing ideas of different kind of feed options. right now he is feeding crappy hay and putting out a lot of salt mix. i have done some research at local feed stores but they act like they dont want to help. i know there is a lot of different feeds out there, but all i can find around here is different kinds of salt mix, lick tubs, sweet feeds etc. any suggestions? thanks
 
Why are you looking for feeds. I would spend my energy improving the hay fields with better grasses so that I could feed just high energy hay and free-fed minerals. That is all they should need.
 
I agree. Get your forage where it needs to be. It wont happen overnight but if you need to suppliment either cubes or tubs are cost efficient. Unless your growing your own grain then all bets are off because there so many different options
 
Standard questions need to apply here
1)where are you?
2)what are you trying to do?
3)how many, how much ground, genetics....

There are a lot of people on here that can help you with a lot of things, but what works well in the Pacific northwest doesn't always work in Texas....we need details to give you any feedback that will be any good for you

Like someone said get your grass right and that will help.
 
I agree with what has been said already. I also agree with something I read in someones signature (don't remember who) but it said "The best way to lose money in farming is do it the way grandpa did. The best way to lose everything farming is forget the way grandpa did it." In other words maybe all you need is a small tweek to whatever is being done currently.
 
How do you know that he feeding "crappy hay", has it been tested or are you going by looks? Does he put up his own hay or buy it? As others have stated we need more specifics of your situation and location. Too many variable to give a good respeonse.
 
well im from marshfield missouri. i raise mixed beef cattle but slowly switching over to brangus, we buy our hay every year, the hay that we buys is usually 2 years old, he just bought 70 bales of hay at $7.00 a bale, he is always looking for cheap hay, i mean he is 91 years old. so while feeding this old hay were usually putting out about 100 - 150#'s salt mix a day and that usually runs us about 20 - 25 dollars a day, and right now we are running about 80 head cause my brother just moved his cattle to a place he just bought. the hay that he buys is usually just mixed hay with lots of weeds, brush etc, i have have never found any brome, lespedeza or any other good grass in the hay we have ever bought.
 
Are the cows holding condition on the "junk" hay? If so I think that you might want to give grandpa a little more credit. I don't know how much hay you are feeding, but if you're going through 4 bales a day (probably high) even with the $25/day in sack feed that is still only $.66/head/day. Most places that's pretty darn good for winter feeding. Yes there needs to be some fuel, labor and other costs added in.

When do you calve? When do you wean? A dry cow in the 2nd trimester doesn't have real high nutritional needs, but if she's close up or milking she needs a lot more. If you're working with owned pastures then I'd try to work on a mix of warm and cool season grasses plus legumes of some type to stretch your grazing season. I know fescue is a blessing and a curse in MO, but if you can manage it you'll get some kick from that. Otherwise you could either plant rye or similar annual to get a little more grazing later in the fall and earlier in the spring. Do you have access to any harvested corn fields? There is a ton of goody out there after the combine rolls through that you might be able to stretch your grazing on there also.

I know that we are tossing a lot of questions at you, but the more info we have the better we can sharpen our answers to your needs.
 
well they are doing ok, but i think they could be doing better. and we calve during the winter and he doesn't wean until he sells the calves in the fall, and that's a problem but he doesn't want to change anything until he turns it over to me. and no i don't have any access to corn fields, there's not many around where i live. but i know he has bought some crappy hay for $35.00 a bale, but if i go to the right place i can get very good quality hay for the same price, but he looks at things differently than i do.See he has always had this farm as a hobby farm and not for profit, but i would like to change that when he turns it over to me. And i have looked into lick tubs and i can get a 250# tub for $85.00, and two tubs would probably last a month or maybe a month and a half, so i think that would be a lot better than salt mix?
 
casey k":3rl1coiz said:
well they are doing ok, but i think they could be doing better. and we calve during the winter and he doesn't wean until he sells the calves in the fall, and that's a problem but he doesn't want to change anything until he turns it over to me. and no i don't have any access to corn fields, there's not many around where i live. but i know he has bought some crappy hay for $35.00 a bale, but if i go to the right place i can get very good quality hay for the same price, but he looks at things differently than i do.See he has always had this farm as a hobby farm and not for profit, but i would like to change that when he turns it over to me. And i have looked into lick tubs and i can get a 250# tub for $85.00, and two tubs would probably last a month or maybe a month and a half, so i think that would be a lot better than salt mix?
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It would be more like 5 tubs a week for 80 head if thats mama cows. Tubs are easy, not cheap. The range meal your feeding is a good way to supplement protien if you have to. You could buy bulk meal or cubes to save more if your not already. I agree that a higher quality hay would save on the feed bill. I sometimes have to supplement protien in the winter months because of fall calving and feeding some bahia hay, but the rest of the year they just get mineral and grass.
 
well 80 head is cows,bulls and calves. so salt mix is a good supplement for the cows? i was told that its just plain old salt and not the best. and whats meal? cubes are the range cubes correct? and with meal or cubes, you feed that with hay in the winter? and what all does meal or cubes have in it? and what mineral would be best in the summer? also which time is best to have calving season? my grandpa leaves the bulls with the cows year around but i am wanting to change that. and how long should i leave the bull in with the cows to make sure they are bred? thanks for everyone's help, im so used to doing it his way and his way only because he don't like change, so im trying to learn as much as i can.
 
casey k":3gwchrdu said:
well 80 head is cows,bulls and calves. so salt mix is a good supplement for the cows? i was told that its just plain old salt and not the best. and whats meal? cubes are the range cubes correct? and with meal or cubes, you feed that with hay in the winter? and what all does meal or cubes have in it? and what mineral would be best in the summer? also which time is best to have calving season? my grandpa leaves the bulls with the cows year around but i am wanting to change that. and how long should i leave the bull in with the cows to make sure they are bred? thanks for everyone's help, im so used to doing it his way and his way only because he don't like change, so im trying to learn as much as i can.
Click to expand...

Range meal is a feed that is mixed with salt to control consumption. It is used as a protein supplement the same as range cubes. Cubes and meal can have a number of ingredients such as cottonseed, corn, vitamins, and minerals. They are used primarily as a protein supplement when feeding hay that is too low in protein. I would stop feeding straight salt and use a mineral suited for your area. Your local feed store should carry minerals that suit your area. If your cows are holding up and staying in reasonable condition with calves on just hay, there is no need to supplement. Alot of people around me run a bull all year and I have before but I started pulling my bull because I wanted to calve everything together. It makes it easier for me working calves. Here we sale calves one at a time but I believe in your area it is more profitable to sale groups of like sized calves. I calf in the fall but alot of people calve in the spring. I don,t no which would work better for you in your area. I leave the bull 90 days. Some will only go 60.
 
ok thanks, yeah i would like to calf in the spring, i used to work on a ranch in South Dakota years ago and we calved in the winter and it was so difficult cause of the extreme temps and all the snow. in Missouri we usually don't get a lot of snow but we do get the cold temps. but rite now im trying to find some good quality hay that has a lot of protein so that i don't have to use much or no supplement. my grandpa has always had this as a hobby farm, but im wanting to make it into a profit farm and im trying to get all info i can get to turn into such.
 
If I could offer some advice on changes it would be "patience grasshopper"! It sounds like you have a lot of changes in mind and thats fine. But make them slowly so you can see which ones work better or give a better profit and which ones don't. It's a alot easier to make one change and know where your problem is then make five changes and have two or three problems.
 
Casey, I originally thought you were a teenager, then I read that you worked on a ranch for years. Is this farm in your home region? If so, don't you know some of the suppliers in your area? I understand Grandpa maybe didn't make a lot of money, but he is 91 and this is his so he deserves some respect for what he has worked for and accumulated. I would think communication with Grandpa and keeping him on after next year. Sounds like he is going to hand it over and you are going to push him in the rocker. Maybe there are some valid reasons for his actions. Working together might create the most honorable/memorable moment in your life if working together he looks over at you and says, "Grandson, you were right, ya taught this old man something!". That will be worth all the riches in the world. I could be completely wrong, have been most of my life, but my impression of your writing is you can't wait to get your hands on this and get out of the way old man, I'm gonna show you how this is done. So for yours and Grandpa's sake, slow down, involve him and talk to him. Get your suggestions or questions to pose to him on why his methods are his methods.

My experience, my dad would only buy hay by the bale. Never by weight. Didn't want to bother he said. He is a very intelligent man, but that was his kick. I buy by weight mostly, pay by the bale on the hay made in my field by a past student. Talk with Grandpa.
 
well my grandpa is a very intelligent man, he used to own 2 fueling stations in springfield mo for 40 years, but he turned 91 today and ive been trying to work with him for the past 5 years trying to come up with better ways to run the farm and he always says i dont want to hear about it, im not trying to push him away, he flat out told me that starting next year he was done with the farm cause he cant handle it no more, and he hasnt been out of the house to look at the cows for almost 4 years, his heart is in very bad shape and he knows this, thats why he is turning it over to me for good next year. he is saying he wont make it through this winter. so im trying to learn as much as i can before he goes, because i really wont have anyone to turn to if i need help, the rest of my family is not really into cattle. My grandpa has owned this farm for 52 years, but i grew up in oklahoma with my parent, then moved to south dakota to take care of a farm up there then moved to missouri to help out my grandpa. i pretty much managed the farm up in south dakota, but every farmer has their own way of taking care of their cattle, so im trying to combine everything i know and try and get some new ideas from other farmers and put everything together and come up with something that will work great for me.
 
I still think you would be doing yourself and grandpa a favor by keeping his as involved as possible. I know he says that he will not be here next year. I have herd that all my life by all of my grandparents, mother, father inlaws. Even if the only way to involve him is to talk with him and heep him informed, I bet it will be rewarding for you as well as him. I am not saying that you shouldn't make your own decisions. If he is turning it over to you, he is asking you to make those decisions. But it does not hurt to listen and share with grandpa.
 

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