HELP!sick yearlings!

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Anonymous

We keep three truckloads of cattle at a time on our cuttin horse place here.(Texas)We use Baytrol,Banamine,Nuflor,LA200,and Micotil the most. No B12,penicillin,asp. bolus,Probius, etc. I think those things are important for these cattle.My boss does not. I need the best recomendation for which vaccine I need to use on fresh yearlings, when they first get sick? Also what to use when they are doctored, re-checked the next day and are fine, but a few days later are sick again. I was told Baytrol, Nuflor, and Micotil do not work in extreme heat. I need an well experienced opinion. Also the factor of giving big shots, and splitting the dose(10cc in more than one spot. Isn't this a key role in properly administering a shot? To keep the area from becoming an absess? HELP PLEASE...

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OP
A

Anonymous

Hello,

To get a better idea of what the problem is, please give more info. Take temperature, listen to lungs, check heart rate. Look for nassal discharge, fluid from eyes, discolored feces with foul odor, or blood in feces.

If you are treating respiratory diseases, you can use Nuflor, Excenell (Naxell), with Banamine.

For Diarhea you can treat with Sulfa drugs such as Albon, Sustain III.

You really need to consult a vet, it is broad use of High powered drugs that help cause more resistant and dangerous stains of these diseases, that can be treated with nothing, and thus result in Death! I know I just had a case like this, hit her with everything in the book and responded to NONE. When dealing with appetite loss, consider the diet they came off of, shipping stress, and dehydration from shipping.

Probios is very helpful, A&D vitamins, and or B Complex. Provide a free choice loose mineral, with micro minerals, not just salt. Lots of CLEAN, FRESH WATER. If this does not help, collect fecal sample and submit to vet, refrigerate (do not Freeze) if you can't get it there ASAP.

Terramiacin can be added to drinking watter, as can Corrid, but this method does not insure propped dose, or intake at all if cattle wont drink.

Reason for 10cc per injection site: As per BQA (Beef Quality Insurance) guide lines, and these should be fore of the shoulder in the NECK, NO RUMP, HIP or anywhere else there is valuable cuts of BEEF. Also Given Sub-Q if says so ON LABEL, this prevents sever damage to musscle tissue and reduces injection site lesions in the meat.

Don't be affraid to USE the vet, yes some over charge, find one that doesn't, the good ones are out there.

Also you can get your own account at TVMDL, Texas Veterinary Micro Diagnostic Lab, (COLLEGE STATION), collect and send in your own lab requests. It is very helpful, if you can identify the problem, it is much easier and more cost effective to treat the illness, and most times, 100% more affective.

Baytrol, Nuflor etc, are HOT drugs, Baytrol, was released for use not too long ago for use in cattle in this country, Same as Cipro (for Anthrax), these are not indended for random flippant use, if they are we will not be able to use them for long, as these micro strains mutate and become resistant. What we will end up with is some disease like AIDES which is untreatable and will cause huge economic loss and of course DEATH!

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

There are a whole bunch of things to be considered. First, what is making these cattle sick? Next, is the area they're kept in contaminated? Where do the cows come from? What are their living conditions like before you get them? Have they been vaccinated against disease? If so, were any booster vaccines given if recommended on the label?

Be sure you understand that treating an animal with an antibiotic is NOT the same as vaccinating them.

Are your antibiotics kept in a refrigerator? Have they been contaminated by dirty needles? Are any of the meds expired? Could someone be using a dirty needle to treat both well and sick animals? A friend infected a whole year's crop of calves by doing that.

We do need more details, but it sounds like you may be using a LOT of drugs - more than average for a small operation.

> We keep three truckloads of
> cattle at a time on our cuttin
> horse place here.(Texas)We use
> Baytrol,Banamine,Nuflor,LA200,and
> Micotil the most. No
> B12,penicillin,asp. bolus,Probius,
> etc. I think those things are
> important for these cattle.My boss
> does not. I need the best
> recomendation for which vaccine I
> need to use on fresh yearlings,
> when they first get sick? Also
> what to use when they are
> doctored, re-checked the next day
> and are fine, but a few days later
> are sick again. I was told
> Baytrol, Nuflor, and Micotil do
> not work in extreme heat. I need
> an well experienced opinion. Also
> the factor of giving big shots,
> and splitting the dose(10cc in
> more than one spot. Isn't this a
> key role in properly administering
> a shot? To keep the area from
> becoming an absess? HELP PLEASE...
 
OP
A

Anonymous

I have been trying to think what sounded so familiar about what you were asking, and then I happened to town today and noticed one of my neighbors out working her: cutting horses and the penload of yearlings that were on the southwest corner of her property... actually, not even of the property, just on the SW corner of her working pen. One thing you can't medicate or vaccinate for and that is overcrowding. Years, maybe even decades ago, someone started doing studies on what happens to rats if they are overcrowded... they began eating each other... as well as other things, (which may or may not explain the activities noted within city limits) but I digress! If you are keeping steers in a pen that is hardly big enough for each one to lie down next to each other, and if your feeding bunk is supposed to handle thirty five head of cows and you have only provided enough space for five or six to CROWD into to get to their feed.... if you have them cooped up that close together when the temperature gets over fifty five degrees and offer no overhead shade... if you never allow them to stretch out and exercise unless you are working them with the horses... how else would your animals be, but sick? I am not saying my neighbor is you, since we are here in Washington state, but I am describing what I have been watching for a few years, and I don't know how the yearlings could be anything but sick... as my brother says: " When your neighbors sit down to their dinner table, they are probably questioning the sanity of that person down the road who is out there PETTING her beef cows!" lol

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

>Hey there,

Thank you so much for your response. Thats pretty exact to wha tI needed. I know the reason why these cattle get sick. I just would like my boss to take an easier and cheaper route with these cattle. No holding pen for the first few days does not help. Once they get into that pasture they just walk and walk and walk. I feel the medication we use is okay, but we need more. And to inject these items differently. To many cattle are coming in one day with a 104. temp. or higher the next day they are doing great, but a few days later they are sick all over again. Not all the time though and not every cow it just seems like the same cattle we doctor once come right back a chronic. We have two that are daily 105 and up and we have given them everything. The worst part one looks completely healthy, not ganted at all, full belly etc. but shes been in the sick pen everyday since the load came in. The other heifer is one of those black rangey heifers that looks bad anyways, cause she has sorry breeding. She looks part buffalo ya know.:)She is also full looking. But her temp is way up there..So anyways I thought if I could get a page of exact medication and what weather it's consistancy sucked in and exactly what its uses are and which is the best for what we had. Maybe he would read it and start listening to me. I think it's because I'm a woman and all he feels a little strange listening to me. But I haven't been wrong yet not on one sick cow. A few times he'll bring up a few and I will. He'll say "I don't think any of those cattle are sick." (mine)But when we get up there and check their temp all mine are sick and none of his are, and I don't think that sits to well with him. Being he's getting up there in age and it's well I'm sure you understand what I'm saying again thank you.... Hello,

> To get a better idea of what the
> problem is, please give more info.
> Take temperature, listen to lungs,
> check heart rate. Look for nassal
> discharge, fluid from eyes,
> discolored feces with foul odor,
> or blood in feces.

> If you are treating respiratory
> diseases, you can use Nuflor,
> Excenell (Naxell), with Banamine.

> For Diarhea you can treat with
> Sulfa drugs such as Albon, Sustain
> III.

> You really need to consult a vet,
> it is broad use of High powered
> drugs that help cause more
> resistant and dangerous stains of
> these diseases, that can be
> treated with nothing, and thus
> result in Death! I know I just had
> a case like this, hit her with
> everything in the book and
> responded to NONE. When dealing
> with appetite loss, consider the
> diet they came off of, shipping
> stress, and dehydration from
> shipping.

> Probios is very helpful, A&D
> vitamins, and or B Complex.
> Provide a free choice loose
> mineral, with micro minerals, not
> just salt. Lots of CLEAN, FRESH
> WATER. If this does not help,
> collect fecal sample and submit to
> vet, refrigerate (do not Freeze)
> if you can't get it there ASAP.

> Terramiacin can be added to
> drinking watter, as can Corrid,
> but this method does not insure
> propped dose, or intake at all if
> cattle wont drink.

> Reason for 10cc per injection
> site: As per BQA (Beef Quality
> Insurance) guide lines, and these
> should be fore of the shoulder in
> the NECK, NO RUMP, HIP or anywhere
> else there is valuable cuts of
> BEEF. Also Given Sub-Q if says so
> ON LABEL, this prevents sever
> damage to musscle tissue and
> reduces injection site lesions in
> the meat.

> Don't be affraid to USE the vet,
> yes some over charge, find one
> that doesn't, the good ones are
> out there.

> Also you can get your own account
> at TVMDL, Texas Veterinary Micro
> Diagnostic Lab, (COLLEGE STATION),
> collect and send in your own lab
> requests. It is very helpful, if
> you can identify the problem, it
> is much easier and more cost
> effective to treat the illness,
> and most times, 100% more
> affective.

> Baytrol, Nuflor etc, are HOT
> drugs, Baytrol, was released for
> use not too long ago for use in
> cattle in this country, Same as
> Cipro (for Anthrax), these are not
> indended for random flippant use,
> if they are we will not be able to
> use them for long, as these micro
> strains mutate and become
> resistant. What we will end up
> with is some disease like AIDES
> which is untreatable and will
> cause huge economic loss and of
> course DEATH!

[email protected]
 
OP
A

Anonymous

What time of day are temping them. If it is elevated early in the morning it is significant. If it is later in the day, ones the days heat starts to build, it's not unusual for their temp to increase, especially if they are black hided, don't have adequate shade or water, and are crowded so there isn't good air circulation. That's this time of year unless you are in an area that doesn;t have temperatures that are getting into the high 70's

dunmovin farms

> Thank you so much for your
> response. Thats pretty exact to
> wha tI needed. I know the reason
> why these cattle get sick. I just
> would like my boss to take an
> easier and cheaper route with
> these cattle. No holding pen for
> the first few days does not help.
> Once they get into that pasture
> they just walk and walk and walk.
> I feel the medication we use is
> okay, but we need more. And to
> inject these items differently. To
> many cattle are coming in one day
> with a 104. temp. or higher the
> next day they are doing great, but
> a few days later they are sick all
> over again. Not all the time
> though and not every cow it just
> seems like the same cattle we
> doctor once come right back a
> chronic. We have two that are
> daily 105 and up and we have given
> them everything. The worst part
> one looks completely healthy, not
> ganted at all, full belly etc. but
> shes been in the sick pen everyday
> since the load came in. The other
> heifer is one of those black
> rangey heifers that looks bad
> anyways, cause she has sorry
> breeding. She looks part buffalo
> ya know.:)She is also full
> looking. But her temp is way up
> there..So anyways I thought if I
> could get a page of exact
> medication and what weather it's
> consistancy sucked in and exactly
> what its uses are and which is the
> best for what we had. Maybe he
> would read it and start listening
> to me. I think it's because I'm a
> woman and all he feels a little
> strange listening to me. But I
> haven't been wrong yet not on one
> sick cow. A few times he'll bring
> up a few and I will. He'll say
> "I don't think any of those
> cattle are sick." (mine)But
> when we get up there and check
> their temp all mine are sick and
> none of his are, and I don't think
> that sits to well with him. Being
> he's getting up there in age and
> it's well I'm sure you understand
> what I'm saying again thank
> you.... Hello,
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Hi there,

Well your boss has a different idea of cattle, they are not animals to him, they are a tool to use for the perpose of training and exercising the equine athlete. He is not really interested in the end product, he is triing to keep them health and usable for as long as possible while not losing too much during the interim of the useage period.

While that period is critical to the calf's development, I would suggest a initial vacination for everything, I use cattle master 4+VL5 & Vision 8, if you did this at the time cattle were dropped off. Gave them just a few days of rest post shipping I believe you would see less illness, and be able to tell your boss you had added value calves now due to preconditioning, which will add value to them when you turn the group over. In the long run you may see fewer visits to the sick pen and better gains, you could also implant them with Synovex or any other Growth implant to increase gains and good appetite. Your Boss's Bottom Line might stike a louder cord than sugestions of heartfelt good intentions and or concern for the animals. Women are often thought of as too kind hearted, or not concerned about cost, only comfort. I believe the bottom Line is the most important but I get there with good ethical treatment of my critters. OH, also I recaomend using disposable needles and syringes, it is MUCH more Sinitary, beter for the cattle, and does NOT take that much more time, a few seconds does not take that much effort, when giving them same meds/vaccinations use the same syringe, just change needles at least every other animal if you just have too, I prefer after every animal, also check to see any if backflash of blood is in the syringe, if there is discard and get a new one! OK I will step off My Soap Box, I hope I have helped give you an idea of how to reduce some tension between You and your Boss

[email protected]
 

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