Heavy Muscled or...

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Brandonm2

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dun":tjhihxq4 said:
farmer rich":tjhihxq4 said:
I'm not a hereford fan but I like the look of that bull. He looks well muscled and must have a lot of frame to carry that weight.

Yes, he looks to be a good choice for a terminal sire if its a hereford you want, but why wouldn't you keep his heifers. They would be big framed and probably easy calvers themselves, seems a shame to lose his genetics for the future. After all what we are producing here is beef.

Look at his EPDs fdor calving ease and maternal calving ease and also carcass. He doesn;t offer anything but size to the equation. Sure wouldn;t plan on retaining heifers from something like that.

dun

I am inclined to agree. Given his massive 3000+++ pound size, I would fully expect his daughters to be too large to last long in my environment and I certainly would not want to feed them every winter; though I think there are exceptions. His milk number is decent and he will certainly add growth to a pedigree that is lacking in it. I think this is a bull that could be a fixer of past mistakes (this bull would really have made an impact 20 years ago); but I would be hesitant to use him on a real high performance herd where the cows may already be getting a little heavy and I wouldn't let him go anywhere near a heifer.
 

El_Putzo

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certherfbeef":2q8garnn said:
Anyone have other suggestions for a terminal cross that is hereford? OTHER than Airforce One and GQ.

Try Bullbarn.com or Onlinebullstud.com

They both have several clubby looking AI sires.
 

cattlemom

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Another thing that I would consider if you are going to try to sell 4-H steers is the frame he is going to give the calves. Of course we want them to have a lot of bone, but if this guy is 2800 lbs & not fat (there is no fat in his brisket at all that I can tell) I wonder how big those steers are going to have to be before they start to put fat on. For our program we like 51-52 inch hip heights that will finish really fat at 1350-1450 lbs. I know they do like them bigger in the midwest though. I'm not saying he wouldn't work - just throwing out another thing to think about....
 

Frankie

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Hill 70":276q39s1 said:
The people who raised that bull, Johner Stock Farm, Live about 40 minutes away from us, havent seen any calves, but the bull himself (from what ive seen in the pics, and his dam) look good.

He's 31 months old and they haven't had any calves sired by him? Isn't that strange? I'd expect if they were promoting him AI, they'd want to use him to show off his calves?
 

El_Putzo

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Actually, according to AHA he's 8.5 yrs old now and has 34 progeny listed with AHA. I think he is probably canadian bred, so he may have some progeny registered in the CHA also.
 

Brandonm2

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cattlemom":26udgeww said:
Another thing that I would consider if you are going to try to sell 4-H steers is the frame he is going to give the calves. Of course we want them to have a lot of bone, but if this guy is 2800 lbs & not fat (there is no fat in his brisket at all that I can tell) I wonder how big those steers are going to have to be before they start to put fat on. For our program we like 51-52 inch hip heights that will finish really fat at 1350-1450 lbs. I know they do like them bigger in the midwest though. I'm not saying he wouldn't work - just throwing out another thing to think about....

Good point! At that size, his steer calves would PROBABLY take 30-60 days longer to finish than a more moderate framed calf and MIGHT weigh 1600 lbs or more when they do so there is the likelihood that some judges are going to bump them down with the charge that they "don't fit in the box", "aren't practical cattle for a working ranch environment", or "are just too big". I don't follow the show ring circuit enough to know what phenotype is "IN" and what is not "IN" (I have seen it yo-yo too much over the years to think that I even have an eye for such things); but this bull may work with some sets of cattle in the ring; but not with other sets of cattle.
 

JHH

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Hey certs would be interested in hereford club calf myself, if it is able to compete in ring for 4-H.Would like to see a red steer win something in our neck of the woods.People around here are brainwashed with one thing in mind BLACK HIDE.Does seem like the other breeds are wider in the rear than most herefords,But I am trying to change that a little bit.Takes time and selective breeding I guess.JHH
 

tapeworm

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Certifiedhereford that is the perfect looking bull judging by pehenotype alone...they just dont get any better looking than that. But when I see how big he is at that age it makes me choke. Why would anybody need that?? Except ollie with those big old RAcows of his. LOL He said an 1800# bull isnt big enough for him and hes right...an 1800# bull would need a bucket jsut to smell of his cows. LOL
 
A

Anonymous

Darn good thing this guy - and yes this northerner knows of this bull - lives a pampered life style - I am pretty sure he would not be in this shape running with my girls in the field!

Will not use him - he's polled.

Bez'
 

rwtherefords

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dun":1qrntriu said:
farmer rich":1qrntriu said:
I'm not a hereford fan but I like the look of that bull. He looks well muscled and must have a lot of frame to carry that weight.

Yes, he looks to be a good choice for a terminal sire if its a hereford you want, but why wouldn't you keep his heifers. They would be big framed and probably easy calvers themselves, seems a shame to lose his genetics for the future. After all what we are producing here is beef.

Look at his EPDs fdor calving ease and maternal calving ease and also carcass. He doesn;t offer anything but size to the equation. Sure wouldn;t plan on retaining heifers from something like that.

dun

Sure agree. I wouldn't use that bull. There are plenty of other bulls that offer his size and growth potential, but don't sacrifice BW, CED, MCE, F, & REA.
 

Brandonm2

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I think we have all had 1800 pound bulls (and most of them got there mostly on grass). This is a bull that was a 2800++ pounder before he was 3. Granted a lot of that came out of a bunk; but that is still very heavy.
 

bigbull338

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ive had a holstein get well over 3000lbs.an he was running with the herd.an keeping the cows bred at that weight.the most grain he ever got was 20lbs.whenever he came though the barn.scott
 

rwtherefords

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Brandonm2":1bob2szh said:
I think we have all had 1800 pound bulls (and most of them got there mostly on grass). This is a bull that was a 2800++ pounder before he was 3. Granted a lot of that came out of a bunk; but that is still very heavy.

Did you look at his fat EPD? If I remember correctly, he was nearly off the scale to the excessive fat side, in fat! He sure looks like a fat, pampered bull to me.
 

Brandonm2

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He has a +.004. Thats not good. It puts him in ~the bottom 30%; but I don't think that is "nearly off the scale". Of course he is a pampered bull. Almost all of the bulls that people post a picture of in the Hereford World and try to market the semen on are "pampered bulls". Nobody wants a bull they have spent thousands of dollars marketing getting broke down in a bull fight, rattlesnake bit, or wore out running a 1000 acre range.
 

rwtherefords

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Brandonm2":2ywq8wa8 said:
He has a +.004. Thats not good. It puts him in ~the bottom 30%; but I don't think that is "nearly off the scale". Of course he is a pampered bull. Almost all of the bulls that people post a picture of in the Hereford World and try to market the semen on are "pampered bulls". Nobody wants a bull they have spent thousands of dollars marketing getting broke down in a bull fight, rattlesnake bit, or wore out running a 1000 acre range.

I stand corrected, but.........
Calving Ease Direct = Bottom 2%
Birth Weight = Bottom 2%
Calving Ease Maternal = Bottom 7%
Fat = Bottom 30%
Rib Eye Area = Bottom 18%
Intramuscular Fat = Bottom 5%

Remember, all I have is a picture on the Internet and these numbers to go on. If you have different information that would show this bull to be a better choice than some other Hereford bulls, great. Go for it. I just said that I wouldn't use him, and explained why.

Good luck.
 

Brandonm2

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I agree. I wasn't defending him; but a handful of steers that were overfattened doesn't concern me a great deal. My biggest problem with the bull is the birth weight EPD. I don't buy or recommend any Hereford with anything over a +5.5 Birth weight EPD. Every bull in the breed with anything over a 6 birth weight EPD would better serve the breed as bologna in my opinion. If my memory serves, this is a Devo son and Devo has pretty ~ideal numbers for birth weight, so this bull's numbers have probably gotten bad only as his calves started reporting in. I wouldn't use him (though Cert claims his cows can have 120 pound calves with no problem); but I recognize that there are persons who find this bulls growth numbers to be desirable and there are probably still herds that could use this bull in their herds.
 

JHH

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Question! What does stay,MPI,and cow mean on the epd?
Thought I had seen most of them for hereford and had them figured out, Wrong :roll:
 

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