heat detection

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Newbie here. I have some 1st calf heifers that have calved from March 10-April 10th. When "should" a cow come back into heat after having a calf? I work a full time job with my business and I only get to see the cows at 7am and usually 7-8pm. I have not noticed any of them riding each other. What should I be looking for other than riding? I'm working with a registered breeder who is going to ET most these cows here at the end of the month. (I know, probably in over my head for the first year!.) I just want to make sure I can detect heat so I can call him to come up and do his work. Any help is appreciated. thanks.
 
That depends on what condition they're in. But you have to let them rest for a good while before you breed them again, especially if you want them to calve around the same date as they did this year. 45 to 60 days at the least is best for them to rest, over 80 to meet the same/similar calving date. Reason being is that you need time to let the uterus get back to normal size, and to let them get into normal cycling.

To answer your questions, that also depends on their condition. They may come back in heat 21 days to 3 months after calving. Reason you're not seeing anything now is that they're going through a period of anestrus, and when they do start coming back into heat that still shouldn't be the time to breed them, because they'll be experiencing irregular cycles (short estrus) due to the fact the follicles need to grow and reach maturity again.
 
Are you going to do ET work or AI work when they come into heat. If you are planning on ET work I would check with someone who is certified to do that type of work. I think the timing of implanting would be something that you need to watch. Good luck with it.
 
ET should take place 7 days after heat because that is usually how old the embryo is. Paint their tale heads if you have a limited window for observing heat activity. I agree with AB- at least 60 days post calving for AI.
 
Thanks everyone. I am having an experience breeder do the ET'ing. Do you think i'm giving them enough time after they calved? I may make the cutoff point on the cows that calved before April 1. That way I give them 45-60days. I plan on using estretech (sp?) patches to help with heat detection. I'm very interested in this stuff. It'll be a new experience!
 
You are putting in embryo transplants using a heat detection method? Maybe this is normal in other places, here using a synch program is the norm. My AI course taught 45 - 60 days post calving for AI. We've always used 55 days after calving (vet suggestion) for AI and for embryos I would wait the 55 days (minimum) and then put them on the synch program which takes 17 days (day 17 you put in the 7 day old embryo). The ones we do I attempt to keep them so they are calving exactly one year after their last calf was born (give or take a few days for weekends). Embryos are just too pricey to take the chance of putting them in too early imo. The key is condition - they have to be healthy if you want them catching and retaining the embryo. If you do the synch program then you can just watch them at the time they are due for heat and/or mark their tail heads Take out any cow that doesn't cycle - or better yet if your tech is experienced he will be able to tell you before thawing in the embryo if the cow is at the right stage of her cycle.

Just a couple notes about heat detection from when I took my AI course:
70% of standing heat occurs between 6PM and 6 AM
22% of standing heat occurs between 6AM and noon.
8% of standing heat occurs between noon and 6PM
One study showed that 28% of of natural estrus cows display heat during the darkness - only 3% of synchronized cows display heat during the darkness. The same study showed that a person watching twice a day (30 minutes each watch) only sees 62% of the cows in heat.
If your cows are wilder or not used to having you around though stay as far away as possible and use binoculars. Cows that are less used to humans will often not display signs of heat if a person is around.
What I have experienced in my own herd - my girls tend to be more active at dusk and when they first wake up. The other time there is a lot of commotion is feeding time. The usual rule though is dusk and dawn. My cows are lazy and sleep in!lol

Signs of Heat- the better you know your cows the better this will go. For example - if you have a shy cow that suddenly becomes bossy pay attention. Some normal signs though include:
Pre Standing heat -
attempts to mount herd mates, will not stand to be mounted, restless, aggressive, bellowing, very small amount of watery mucus
In Heat (standing heat):
stands to be ridden, bawls frequently, nervous and excitable, rides other cows, off feed, first cow up, vulva moist and red, clear mucous discharge, eye pupils dilated, tail held to the side
After Heat:
no longer stands to be ridden, clear mucous discharge from vulva

Some cows are really easy to spot - they'll show all the signs. Other cows won't do anything. If you plan to do this every year keep notes on each cow. Our instructor suggested we do this and I am glad I did. It's the best way of learning their individual quirks and being able to teach yourself the more subtle things to look for.

One other thing - you have cows that are getting pregnant with their second calf - this is the hardest time to get pregnant for a cow (with the exception of old age). My embryo technician recommends not using cows getting pregnant with their second calf for embryo recipients. If you want to artificially inseminate them then I would give them the 55 days just to let them get into shape because of their age. Good mineral is essential too if you want them to catch. Good Luck!!
 
Thanks for the information, Victoria. There's lots of stuff in there I've never heard before. Another thing I'd like to know is how long is a cow in standing heat typically?
 
heat-chart.jpg
 
slick4591":5binnn4d said:
Thanks for the information, Victoria. There's lots of stuff in there I've never heard before. Another thing I'd like to know is how long is a cow in standing heat typically?

Six hours average I think, range from 0 to over 24 hours. They used to teach that on average an on-heat cow is mounted every twenty minutes and that's why you watch them at least 20 - 30, but since they're commonly mounted three times in five minutes then wander off grazing for a while that's why detection aids are so important, so you notice the ones that didn't jump in front of you, or don't get plastered in saliva and mud with the rump hair rubbed right off.
 
dun":2fyhzke1 said:

regolith":2fyhzke1 said:
Six hours average I think, range from 0 to over 24 hours. They used to teach that on average an on-heat cow is mounted every twenty minutes and that's why you watch them at least 20 - 30, but since they're commonly mounted three times in five minutes then wander off grazing for a while that's why detection aids are so important, so you notice the ones that didn't jump in front of you, or don't get plastered in saliva and mud with the rump hair rubbed right off.

Thank you!
 
Thanks for the advice everyone! Great info.

We went ahead and put in CIDRS a week ago last Monday morning and gave them a shot of cystorilin. Then this past Sunday evening we gave them 6cc of Lutalyse and then monday morning we pulled the CIDRS and gave them 3cc of Lutalyse and put on estrotech heat patches.

They were supposed to come into heat noon Tuesday through today (thursday). Out of 12 cows and when I say cows they are first calf heifers - only 4 of them I have been able to spot for standing heat. Today is the last day I'm supposed to detect heat. I have been checking them at 7am and 7pm. I do'nt farm or ranch full time so I can't watch them all day.

What do you guys think? I was hoping for more to come into heat than 30%! We will be putting in embryos next wednesday.

I will have to admit I am new to this and maybe I'm not noticing the other signs of heat. I also fear maybe I put the heat patches just a little too far forward - but the ones that were worn off were the ones I physically had seen standing and being rode.

Any ideas or help or suggestions is appreciated.
 

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