Muletrack
Well-known member
Mud is usually not a problem in a North Dakota Winter.
Hay Fed
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Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Extended grazing season is not the goal, but low cost/cow day grazing on the Northern Plains is. So you need to have tool(s) for each season:
1) Adjust stocking rate seasonally:
Guys with free or cheap land can just reduce the cow stocking rate. Guys with short term stockers over can sell them in July or August. Guys with replacement heifers can sell them in November or December.
2) Stockpile (6 to 8 weeks) fall forage in late August and September and early October:
- Guys with all sod are limited, but there are still options to supplement cows in late August and September when you are growing the October and November stockpile. Here the beet plants open in August and there is not much demand for byproduct. Or you can roll up some wet hay (since it will not dry much in the fall) every two to three days. You will start seeing some refusal on day three.
- Guys with crop able land have more options. The gurus like to babble about inter seeding crop land (because that is where the wealth is) but they often leave a couple things out. One is (our short) growing season. Another is that they can afford to fly on (rye) seed in some I states because they get a per acre payment. Been there, done all of that, not my fav.
- Guys who renovate improved pastures have some minimum till options that will start to prep your seed bed. I have been messing a lot in this area. Still a work in process but these are options that may work for you:
- Take one grazing or cut and then burn it down. Come back with a millet or sorghum sudan based mix in June.
- Take several grazings or cuts and then burn it down. Come back with an oats based mix in August.
3) Start grazing (2 weeks) earlier
Sod guys can NOT graze some acres in the fall. Soybean guys can grow some rye.
1) Adjust stocking rate seasonally:
Guys with free or cheap land can just reduce the cow stocking rate. Guys with short term stockers over can sell them in July or August. Guys with replacement heifers can sell them in November or December.
2) Stockpile (6 to 8 weeks) fall forage in late August and September and early October:
- Guys with all sod are limited, but there are still options to supplement cows in late August and September when you are growing the October and November stockpile. Here the beet plants open in August and there is not much demand for byproduct. Or you can roll up some wet hay (since it will not dry much in the fall) every two to three days. You will start seeing some refusal on day three.
- Guys with crop able land have more options. The gurus like to babble about inter seeding crop land (because that is where the wealth is) but they often leave a couple things out. One is (our short) growing season. Another is that they can afford to fly on (rye) seed in some I states because they get a per acre payment. Been there, done all of that, not my fav.
- Guys who renovate improved pastures have some minimum till options that will start to prep your seed bed. I have been messing a lot in this area. Still a work in process but these are options that may work for you:
- Take one grazing or cut and then burn it down. Come back with a millet or sorghum sudan based mix in June.
- Take several grazings or cuts and then burn it down. Come back with an oats based mix in August.
3) Start grazing (2 weeks) earlier
Sod guys can NOT graze some acres in the fall. Soybean guys can grow some rye.
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Stocker Steve
Well-known member
I can grow the **** out of forage, but the fall math (with low lb DM/acre) is very difficult for a cow/calf only operation. You need a lot of acres for early spring and fall forage to make extended grazing for cows work, and you need partial budgets for each approach. So for most you are either a crop guy who has a "small" herd, or you are a cow guy who has a lot of (remote) summer pasture, or you are a stocker guy who sells most of his cattle in August. I am doing some of each to keep it challenging.
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Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Oats dies in the low 20s, turnips die in the upper teens, and succulent oats does not stand well. Once it gets to twenty F we do not have much mud. I am still grazing that (mud free) mix today - - but utilization has dropped down to about 50%. I think having it gone by early to mid-November would be ideal in the Northern Plains. Local weather will affect your timing.
A cow man should be used to a lot of gas. I don't see the problem.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Timing will be critical. It was a sorry feeling to see a month worth of cow feed the day before laying flat on the ground. I guess if the oats were planted earlier, they might stand into winter. What saved the day was the cows digging those turnips up, which they were able to do since the ground wasn't froze. I had never seen a cow root like that before, but they salvaged a fair amount of feed value from the field.Mud is usually not a problem in a North Dakota Winter.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Been around cows my whole life and am used to cow gas. Turnip gas seemed more potent, and the chit flew a little further than normal, just a word of advise. You certainly don't have to take my word for it.
Nick Wagner
Well-known member
Thinking overnight and this analogy occurred to me. It's also been about 15 years since I experimented with oats and turnips. Anyways, it was like going into a confinement hog barn. The stink gets into your pores. Walking through the cows when they were eating turnips had that same effect, I could smell myself when I got in the house. Kind of unusual for cows in the field in my experience and you can take it for what you think it's worth. Reason I post this is I don't think there are many who have experimented with turnips, and I have. Sounds like you have too and I wish you luck.
I have had pretty good luck experimenting with turnips. Never noticed the gas issue but maybe that was due to the fact that I never get much below freezing and never saw the wilting? Turnip seed is real cheap, I do some light disking and broadcast in August. Timing seems important where I'm at, it seems to quit growing around mid-Nov in the PNW. I also did some turnips and SS planted late July this year, good timing for turnips, bad for SS but it worked out OK. Strip grazed in October while I stockpiled some of my fescue. Turnips seems to stay good until Dec/Jan at least and cows love to root them up. Looks like its been rototilled afterwards. Again, very temperate here and not often below freezing, just rain and mud.
This is in December, planted too late and seeded too thick, and poorly prepped seedbed.
This is a little better, the next year 2020, kale, canola, and turnips, grazing in Oct.
This year, SS and turnips mixed, planted late July, strip grazed October.
This year turnips and SS. Big bulbs.
This is in December, planted too late and seeded too thick, and poorly prepped seedbed.
This is a little better, the next year 2020, kale, canola, and turnips, grazing in Oct.
This year, SS and turnips mixed, planted late July, strip grazed October.
This year turnips and SS. Big bulbs.
Muletrack
Well-known member
Am thinking of planting turnips/radishes to help recover some deep N. Just wondering if I can plant the brassicas earlier in the summer along with something like Piper Sudan, or if I should go ahead and take the warm season forage off and them come back with the fall frost mix (from my seed dearler) which would be grazed until maybe Dec. 1. This would be on a 140 acres that was in continuous corn/soy rotation for 18 years. Fall mix would include
20% Lentil
30% German Millet
10% Kale
10% Collard
20% Oats
5% Radish
5% Turnip
This mix is designed to produce high quality forage while adding nitrogen to your soil. All species tolerate frost well so they should provide some good growth later in the year, according to Chesak Seed.
20% Lentil
30% German Millet
10% Kale
10% Collard
20% Oats
5% Radish
5% Turnip
This mix is designed to produce high quality forage while adding nitrogen to your soil. All species tolerate frost well so they should provide some good growth later in the year, according to Chesak Seed.
Lee VanRoss
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Thank you to the contributors of this topic. I appreciate your input. LVR
I had the same question and decided to throw the turnip seed in with the SS this July (plus I had some old seed and figured what the heck). For me, because I was planting the SS later than I wanted to (late July) I knew I wouldn't get the SS off until it was past time to plant brassicas. I ended up having to graze the whole thing earlier rather than later because I didn't want to worry about prussic acid with the SS. I would do things differently next time. My brassicas have not done great if planted after mid-August, so I guess it depends when you think you could take off the piper sudan.
Muletrack
Well-known member
Thanks for the note. I'm new at Piper-Sudan. Had a failed experiment on 20 acres this year because of drought. Yes, am leaning toward early August seeding of the frost mix. Won't do the whole quarter section -- just a test, maybe 48 acres. Want to recover some deep N which my soil test shows. This is all with the intention of putting some of this to permanent pasture in two seasons. Not sure if I need to terminate the Piper before I proceed. Don't like to spray much.
I have destroyed a 10 acre hayfield the last couple days feeding hay. Has gotten soggy wet. I have 250 lbs of ryegrass in the barn that's going to go on around Valentines Day. What would you all broadcast with it. I'm sure I've compacted the hell out of the top this Fall
BFE
Well-known member
Might try Frosty Berseem. It can be seeded in the spring in the south. I've not tried it at that date, I seeded some with wheat in October and had good emergence. Or you could do the old standby of red clover, it loves February seeding, or a mix of both to see which does better.
This field was always loaded to the gills with red clover on 2nd cutting. It has thinned out some though since grazing instead of haying. Still may add some to the hopper.
I'll look into the berseem. Don't know much about it.
Hairy Vetch has crossed my mind. Any thoughts on this one?
Is February late or early for spring emergence, would yall say?
BFE
Well-known member
Back in the 90's hairy vetch was being pushed hard for its N production for corn. I've never messed with it, but I've heard it's not good for grazing/haying.
I don't buy from them, but Advance Cover Crops in Marion IL has a good site with nice descriptions of different plant options. Since we're both in the Fescue Belt, our weather should be pretty similar so their ratings would be in the ballpark for what you need. Most cover info I find is from the More Northerly states.
BFE
Well-known member
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Frosty Berseem it is!Home - Advance Cover Crops
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They have a 0/5 score on the vetch for grazing, and 1/5 for haying. Nuff said.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Odd mix with a huge amount of brassica. Check out the Smart Mix calculator on Green Cover Crop site.
I have started to double crop some annual forage acres. This year I press drilled my SS mix in mid June (too late due to drought) and then press drilled an oats and turnip mix into it after a fall rain in early September.
Still working on a NT drill but have found an old press drill and no tillage prep works OK as long as you go in after a rain.
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