Hammonds Pardoned.

[greybeard]

The only meaningful document would be the trial briefs.

And not even those in this case, since BLM conveniently neglected to include 'certain "need to know" information' which is why the last case got thrown out. Power corrupts and for the govt lackey/agent in charge, it corrupted absolutely.

 

[True Grit Farms]

https://www.outsideonline.com/1988971/p ... feud-grows
The government can burn you out and even kill you, setting fires.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The only meaningful document would be the trial briefs.

And not even those in this case, since BLM conveniently neglected to include 'certain "need to know" information' which is why the last case got thrown out. Power corrupts and for the govt lackey/agent in charge, it corrupted absolutely.

BLM works by the same set of rules as the EPA.

 

[Bright Raven]

The only meaningful document would be the trial briefs.

And not even those in this case, since BLM conveniently neglected to include 'certain "need to know" information' which is why the last case got thrown out. Power corrupts and for the govt lackey/agent in charge, it corrupted absolutely.

Don't remind me - I saw some sloppy enforcement actions during my time as an Enforcement Specialist.

But I also saw far more shamelessly dishonest behavior from the Regulated Community which is why I would not judge this case unless I had a ringside seat!

The only thing more rare than an honest man is an honest, objective man. About the only thing humans do well is perpetuate the species. Which at the end of the day is the only purpose.

 

[True Grit Farms]

The only meaningful document would be the trial briefs.

And not even those in this case, since BLM conveniently neglected to include 'certain "need to know" information' which is why the last case got thrown out. Power corrupts and for the govt lackey/agent in charge, it corrupted absolutely.

Don't remind me - I saw some sloppy enforcement actions during my time as an Enforcement Specialist.

But I also saw far more shamelessly dishonest behavior from the Regulated Community which is why I would not judge this case unless I had a ringside seat!

The only thing more rare than an honest man is an honest, objective man. About the only thing humans do well is perpetuate the species. Which at the end of the day is the only purpose.

So why should a queer have any rights?

 

[Bright Raven]

And not even those in this case, since BLM conveniently neglected to include 'certain "need to know" information' which is why the last case got thrown out. Power corrupts and for the govt lackey/agent in charge, it corrupted absolutely.

Don't remind me - I saw some sloppy enforcement actions during my time as an Enforcement Specialist.

But I also saw far more shamelessly dishonest behavior from the Regulated Community which is why I would not judge this case unless I had a ringside seat!

The only thing more rare than an honest man is an honest, objective man. About the only thing humans do well is perpetuate the species. Which at the end of the day is the only purpose.

So why should a queer have any rights?

Ask God.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I have, just can't get a straight answer.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have, just can't get a straight answer.

Had the same experience. I was about 6. I committed some kind of bad deed. I just knew the devil would get me. So I ask him to make the devil get out from under my bed. He didn't give me an answer so one night, I crawled under the bed and said " Devil, get out from there". But there was no devil.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I have, just can't get a straight answer.

This might be the pun of the year.

I think the answer on this case lies in the middle. I have read articles that stated they were covering up their poaching, and another that stated they shifted fires that put FF's in danger. On the other hand there's articles that say they were just doing a burn that got out of control. Who knows.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have, just can't get a straight answer.

This might be the pun of the year.

I think the answer on this case lies in the middle. I have read articles that stated they were covering up their poaching, and another that stated they shifted fires that put FF's in danger. On the other hand there's articles that say they were just doing a burn that got out of control. Who knows.

Who knows? No one knows. Don't forget the immortal teachings of Father True Grit:

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ!!!

I don't take it quite as far as Father Grit but I do agree with him on commentary. And 90% of what we read and hear is commentary. Commentary is the intrepretion of information from the perspective of the author. The author's objective is to use his command of words to make the information persuade us to his perspective.

 

[Bestoutwest]

Who knows? No one knows. Don't forget the immortal teachings of Father True Grit:

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ!!!

I don't take it quite as far as Father Grit but I do agree with him on commentary. And 90% of what we read and hear is commentary. Commentary is the intrepretion of information from the perspective of the author. The author's objective is to use his command of words to make the information persuade us to his perspective.[/quote]

My wife was on a pretty large financial trial and after it was done she read the articles about it and pointed out all the inaccuracies. I have a friend who is a state trooper and he was telling me that you have a tattooed, known gang member in court, and you cannot mention it. So, there's tons of things that get left out by both the papers and the courts.

Your above quote is what infuriates me the most about our current state of media. If you read CNN everything Trump does is evil, vile, villainous. Fox pretty much makes him out to be the second coming of Christ. I could go on, but those are the two biggies. Both are pandering to their base audiences, and those of us that want accurate news are left with nowhere to go.

 

[ga.prime]

I think the answer on this case lies in the middle. I have read articles that stated they were covering up their poaching, and another that stated they shifted fires that put FF's in danger. On the other hand there's articles that say they were just doing a burn that got out of control. Who knows.

Maybe the jury that found them guilty of two counts of arson in federal court? Burning up a poaching scene where they had slaughtered a herd of deer according to witnesses and in a separate incident setting fires in the night that hemmed in sleeping firefighters.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have, just can't get a straight answer.

This might be the pun of the year.

Best. I don't care what the others say, Grit is a lot more intelligent than some folks think.

 

[Bestoutwest]

I think the answer on this case lies in the middle. I have read articles that stated they were covering up their poaching, and another that stated they shifted fires that put FF's in danger. On the other hand there's articles that say they were just doing a burn that got out of control. Who knows.

Maybe the jury that found them guilty of two counts of arson in federal court? Burning up a poaching scene where they had slaughtered a herd of deer according to witnesses and in a separate incident setting fires in the night that hemmed in sleeping firefighters.

Prosecutors have been know to exaggerate or even lie. Defense lawyers notoriously do the same. Juries get it wrong, and journalists are jaded. I've read accounts where they're heroes, and others more villainous than Bin Laden. I lean toward the guilty party, but in reality us cattle board lawyers know very little of the specifics.

 

[ga.prime]

I think the answer on this case lies in the middle. I have read articles that stated they were covering up their poaching, and another that stated they shifted fires that put FF's in danger. On the other hand there's articles that say they were just doing a burn that got out of control. Who knows.

Maybe the jury that found them guilty of two counts of arson in federal court? Burning up a poaching scene where they had slaughtered a herd of deer according to witnesses and in a separate incident setting fires in the night that hemmed in sleeping firefighters.

Prosecutors have been know to exaggerate or even lie. Defense lawyers notoriously do the same. Juries get it wrong, and journalists are jaded. I've read accounts where they're heroes, and others more villainous than Bin Laden. I lean toward the guilty party, but in reality us cattle board lawyers know very little of the specifics.

The jury heard the all evidence from both sides and voted to convict, end of argument. Did Hammonds appeal? No, because they made a deal to serve the sentence for the arson convictions in exchange for the prosecution to drop further criminal charges.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Maybe the jury that found them guilty of two counts of arson in federal court? Burning up a poaching scene where they had slaughtered a herd of deer according to witnesses and in a separate incident setting fires in the night that hemmed in sleeping firefighters.

Prosecutors have been know to exaggerate or even lie. Defense lawyers notoriously do the same. Juries get it wrong, and journalists are jaded. I've read accounts where they're heroes, and others more villainous than Bin Laden. I lean toward the guilty party, but in reality us cattle board lawyers know very little of the specifics.

The jury heard the all evidence from both sides and voted to convict, end of argument. Did Hammonds appeal? No, because they made a deal to serve the sentence for the arson convictions in exchange for the prosecution to drop further criminal charges.

I didn't think the Hammonds had a "jury trial by their peers" I thought the Hammonds went in front of a federal judge? The Hammonds were never found guilty by a jury of anything.

 

[Bright Raven]

I didn't think the Hammonds had a "jury trial by their peers" I thought the Hammonds went in front of a federal judge? The Hammonds were never found guilty by a jury of anything.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/east ... ars-prison

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012. The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

 

[Bright Raven]

This is noteworthy. See underlined.

The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out "Strike Anywhere" matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to "light up the whole country on fire." One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/east ... ars-prison

 

[True Grit Farms]

I didn't think the Hammonds had a "jury trial by their peers" I thought the Hammonds went in front of a federal judge? The Hammonds were never found guilty by a jury of anything.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/east ... ars-prison

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012. The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

Looks like I'm mistaken - wrong again, but I know I read somewhere that a jury never convicted them of any crimes. The Hammonds somehow pleaded guilty to lesser crimes before the trial was even over.

 

[True Grit Farms]

This is noteworthy. See underlined.

The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out "Strike Anywhere" matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to "light up the whole country on fire." One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/east ... ars-prison

I read all that hearsay a bunch of times. You think there was a axe to grind in that testimony, or paid testimony by the DA?