Growing heifers

[rnh2]

Planning on keeping some heifers. I've done this before but would like better results. What's good ration/amount to feed these babies? Seems my way they get potbellied.

 

[Son of Butch]

Feeding low quality hay to heifers with poor rumen development is the most common cause of pot bellies.
I don't know what 'your way' means or what age, weight, pasture condition, wormer ect. so difficult to say what to add or change.
Respiratory diseases or coccidiosis could also be hindering rate of gain. Are you vaccinating? What's in your grain mix?
Don't feed grain mixes containing urea or npn before they're 200 days old.
Pasture or silage should not be their sole source of feed before 200 days of age as they are still developing a functional rumen and have a limited capacity to consume enough forages.
You called them babies, bottle calves under 200 lbs need a ration of at least 16 - 18% crude protein.
Don't start them on hay before they are consuming at least 3 lbs daily of 16% or better grain mix.

 

[dun]

At weaning we put them on a 13% weaning ration gradually working them up to about 1 1/2% of their weight as they grow. After 45 days we turn them out with the bred cows. So it's stockpiled fescue and hay if needed. Other then to gather them in the working pens they never see grain again. Our heifers are moderate framed, 5 - 5.5. These heifers are weaned at around 650-700 lbs at 6-7 months of age. No creep as babys, just grass and mom for feeduntil weaning.

 

[rnh2]

K thanks they're 1/4 brahma 1/4 charlais 1/4 gelbveih 1/4 red angus. Wild mix but I think they'll do good

 

[TexasBred]

K thanks they're 1/4 brahma 1/4 charlais 1/4 gelbveih 1/4 red angus. Wild mix but I think they'll do good

I've used a creep feeder with good results. Fill it with a 14% crude protein ration mix consisting of soybean meal, corn, oats mixed 50:50, soyhulls, vitamins and minerals and free choice grazing and/or hay.

 

[Wewild]

At weaning we give them good high protein medicated feed free choice. When that is gone we put them on 10% protein free choice. I can't recall the amount we buy compared to their body weight but it will be about 4 weeks (roughly 2 weeks each time). Being aroung them and feeding them tends to settle them some. Go easy on that at first. We turn them out with a bred older mother cow. They like her alot.

I forgot we always put a little hay in their as well. It seems like the right thing to do. The spring heifers know what it is.

 

[fenceman]

Hope you don't mind mh2 I have a similar question. For convenience I've put a group of just weaned 6 to 7 month old heifers in with a group of yearling 12 to 14 month heifers.
The older ones were raised on a stocker ration and grass. They are now on dry grass ,fair hay and tubs.
Bad idea????
Butch mentioned no urea under 200 days. These calves are right about that. Just curious, why?

 

[Caustic Burno]

K thanks they're 1/4 brahma 1/4 charlais 1/4 gelbveih 1/4 red angus. Wild mix but I think they'll do good

That is not a good mix to retain lots of data backing this on the crossbred cow.
Once you go past a 3 way cross calf you are reducing weaning weights.

 

[Son of Butch]

Hope you don't mind mh2 I have a similar question. For convenience I've put a group of just weaned 6 to 7 month old heifers in with a group of yearling 12 to 14 month heifers.
The older ones were raised on a stocker ration and grass. They are now on dry grass ,fair hay and tubs.
Bad idea????
Butch mentioned no urea under 200 days. These calves are right about that. Just curious, why?

Rumen development. Under 6 months of age cattle can't properly utilize npn and you just fool yourself as to how much nutrition you are actually providing to them. 200 days is on the strong side of 6 months to be sure.

 

[Lucky_P]

CB wrote:
Once you go past a 3 way cross calf you are reducing weaning weights.

I'm not so sure that's necessarily the case, CB. Predictability may be out the window, and choosing a complementary service sire may be difficult - depending upon what you're wanting these crossbred heifers to produce, but I'm unconvinced that more than 3 breeds in the mix automatically translates into reduced weaning weights.
For example:
What if all 4 parents from the 4 breeds involved were in the top 1% of their breed for WW? There's no reason that I can see why weaning weights would necessarily plummet, just because there were 4 breeds in the mix instead of just 3.

 

[TexasBred]

Hope you don't mind mh2 I have a similar question. For convenience I've put a group of just weaned 6 to 7 month old heifers in with a group of yearling 12 to 14 month heifers.
The older ones were raised on a stocker ration and grass. They are now on dry grass ,fair hay and tubs.
Bad idea????
Butch mentioned no urea under 200 days. These calves are right about that. Just curious, why?

Once a calf is near 400 lbs. he can utilize urea ok but it's best used on a high energy grain based diet. For a diet that is primarily use natural protein supplementation.

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB wrote:
Once you go past a 3 way cross calf you are reducing weaning weights.

I'm not so sure that's necessarily the case, CB. Predictability may be out the window, and choosing a complementary service sire may be difficult - depending upon what you're wanting these crossbred heifers to produce, but I'm unconvinced that more than 3 breeds in the mix automatically translates into reduced weaning weights.
For example:
What if all 4 parents from the 4 breeds involved were in the top 1% of their breed for WW? There's no reason that I can see why weaning weights would necessarily plummet, just because there were 4 breeds in the mix instead of just 3.

That is just the data from several major Ag Universities.
Guess I am not willing to gamble my dollars.
The 3 way cross cow will wean a calf 86% of the F-1.
The mongrel was even lower and I don't remember the number without looking it up.
With falling prices 14% or more is a lot to give away.

http://www.noble.org/ag/livestock/heterosis/

 

[cowgirl8]

That is just the data from several major Ag Universities.
Guess I am not willing to gamble my dollars.
The 3 way cross cow will wean a calf 86% of the F-1.
The mongrel was even lower and I don't remember the number without looking it up.
With falling prices 14% or more is a lot to give away.

http://www.noble.org/ag/livestock/heterosis/

So are you saying it is impossible to get good weaning weights from a mongrel or a 3 way and will always get good weaning weights from a bull with papers? Its that easy, so says the university...

 

[Muddy]

That is just the data from several major Ag Universities.
Guess I am not willing to gamble my dollars.
The 3 way cross cow will wean a calf 86% of the F-1.
The mongrel was even lower and I don't remember the number without looking it up.
With falling prices 14% or more is a lot to give away.

http://www.noble.org/ag/livestock/heterosis/

So are you saying it is impossible to get good weaning weights from a mongrel or a 3 way and will always get good weaning weights from a bull with papers? Its that easy, so says the university...

One word: consistent. Your bulls may have few nice calves, but I see too many variables in your calf crop and none of them looks like identical to each other, even in weights.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Muddy you just gave the definition for back 40 cattle.

 

[Muddy]

Muddy you just gave the definition for back 40 cattle.

However, adding a new breed to the mix wont hurt the weaning weight, especially if its a purebred bull on Heinz 57 cows. On other hand, mongrels on mongrels can give you a very mixed results, and the weaning weights are way variable.

 

[M-5]

Y'all are wasting your time trying to explain it. Some get it, some deny it.

 

[cowgirl8]

The only inconsistencies we have are age. Since we have a 3 month breeding season, we have calves that are 3 months different in ages. Most are born the first month, then a few trickle in later. So there are handful 3 months younger than the first born.
But you are right M-5....some people just refuse to get it. Any inconsistencies seen in our cattle are from our old sim cows who put white on their calves occasionally...but since we sold many of the old gals last year when an old cow was bringing over 2000 at the sale, we got a mostly black crop of calves this year. Sold a load of 17 cull heifer calves that were so consistent in weight, it even surprised me. After being in the sim, simbrah business for so many years, our calves were like a colorful basket of easter eggs. And even though we ran mostly registered cattle, sizes were all over the place. After the 10 year transition to sim/angus we've finally met our goal to a all black calf crop (except for a few that are in that old herd)
And technically, since we do sell at a sale barn......and sell by the trailer load, All that matters is that calf that goes into the ring, one at a time. All that matters is if the buyers like that calf that goes in, one at a time. Buyer does not care what our cows look like, doesnt care what the other calves look like in our trailer...just one by one. What matters to me is what our calves bring at the sale and as long as we get average or above average bids.......i'll run the bulls no matter what breed on our cows that make us money.

the brown one is a cow..

 

[Caustic Burno]

Y'all are wasting your time trying to explain it. Some get it, some deny it.

Science and the data has been researched to death with the same result.
Those that clean up their act will be here those that don't wont.
They will still be able to sell at the barn the deduction will just get worse and worse.
There will be us raising beef for the table and those raising it for Wolf Brand chili.
The buyers have used science to buy what they want in the feedlot and what will
weigh out and grade in the fewest days in a uniform lot.
The only person you are fooling is yourself if you don't clean up your act.

That is the reason I only replied to Muddy.

 

[cowgirl8]

LOL...you guys are a riot.. This is the only place you can read where someone picks up crap cull longhorn crosses and puts a char on them and can be rolling in the dough... but someone can spend time, years and pick and choose their cattle and are losing money....