Great Advice for Cow-Calf Producers

[Texan]

A cow should give you a calf every 12 months or you need to cull her. There are exceptions to every rule but you need to make sure you don't let too many exceptions ruin your operation.

I stole this from another thread. I think it is some of the best general advice I have ever seen here for cow-calf producers. Doesn't matter if you're a newcomer or brokemouth. That's why I'm making a new thread with it. (And I'll probably repeat it at the end of this one.) There's plenty of bad-boy, cutthroat cow cullers that give the same old 'calf every 12 months or send her to town' advice. A lot of them don't even practice what they preach. Easier for me to cull yours than to cull mine, you know? Unfortunately, there's never enough mention of the exceptions.

Sure, a cow should give us a calf every year. That's a no-brainer. But, with the cost of replacements like they are, a person has to be open-minded about culling. I'm afraid many of you will come to regret your $1,400 replacements. I won't, because I won't have any! Sometimes a cow has a good excuse for skipping. Many times, it's more our fault than hers. Sometimes she doesn't have any excuse, but the cost of replacing her is much higher than the cost of keeping her and giving her another shot. Why buy a high-priced replacement that you know nothing about, when you can give a cow from your own herd another chance? Don't automatically fall for the 'send her to town' preaching. Figure the cost both ways. Sometimes it's cheaper to keep her. Just do like Farmhand says and "don't let too many exceptions ruin your operation." Let them be the exception, not the rule.

Thanks, Farmhand! Really, really great advice:

"A cow should give you a calf every 12 months or you need to cull her. There are exceptions to every rule but you need to make sure you don't let too many exceptions ruin your operation."

 

[Wewild]

Texan ... Thanks for pointing that out ...... I read it and went right past it.

Good post Farmhand!

Got to slow down some.....

 

[Jake]

GREAT POST!!!!

I personally see no reason to cull a cow that's calf dies of pnemonia or is a young cow that's calf has died or she came up open because of bull problems... Why isn't keeping a young cow a second chance after circumstances like that the same as giving a first calf heifer her chance? At least you fairly well know the one that you keep knows how to raise a calf...

I also don't personally see that you can afford to bring in unpredictable genetics into your herd, (I'll post a picture of what it does next time I'm down home) at the cost of $1200-$1800 a pair!! That's gunna take you at least 3 years at an average of $500 a calf and a depreciation down to $300 value on the cow... that's at least 2 extra years your own replacements or exceptions to the rules could have been making you money while the other cow is still paying herself off....

but then again... I'm just a stupid kid....

 

[jerry27150]

old fellar up the road claims if a cow loses a year once she will do it again, he kept records on his

 

[la4angus]

Excellent post Texan. But I am sort of prejudice too. On account I was thinking just the same things that you posted after I read Farmhands post.
It would certainly bring the total cowherd down because a small percent of the cowherd will give you a calf every 12 mo. and it's not always the cows fault. More times than not I would think it is the producers mismanagement.
It could be the bulls fault.
I know of instances also of AI'd cows that were bred to bulls whose semen was unknowingly not any good. Didn't realize it until all the AI'd cows started coming back in heat approx. 3 weeks later. You gonna blame that on the cows. The semen was supposed to be good but wasn't. In these instances it can't be blamed on the bulls either. There has been more than one instance, that the stud that did the collecting, processing and freezing of the semen shipped blanks.

 

[Wewild]

old fellar up the road claims if a cow loses a year once she will do it again, he kept records on his

I didn't read it as losing a year.

 

[susiq]

I completely agree that not culling too quickly is a good policy. We look at the cow's complete picture. Is she easy to handle, does she have to be doctored often, what does her calf's look like when she has calved in the past and was she a good mother? If all is positive answers we keep her. If she skips another year, then she gets another zip code.

 

[sidney411]

I cull based on a 3 strike and your out criteria. Certain things count as more then one strike.

If she has a big teat I have to milk out, but the calf takes over in a week or two, then that's 1 strike. If there is the same problem next year then that's 2 strikes.

If she aborts or has a still born and it's not found to be an external problem through vet analysis, that's 2 strikes (I have one in this caterory right now) if she loses another calf- that's 3 strikes.

If one tried to get in my back pocket (unless I provoke it in some way then it's my fault for getting in her space, just like I don't want her in my space) - that's 2 1/2 strikes, unless she really really tried to hurt myself or family, then that's automattically 3 strikes. I have culled 2 for this in the past.

If a cow can't support a calf for any reason (i.e. no milk, bad bag, bad teeth to the extent she has a runty calf) then that's 3 strikes (had one in this caterory last year)

My suggestion is to write up a list of all the reasons you could think of and assign a strike value to each one. That way when the time comes up you won't send one down the road just because you kinda don't like her and keep one you shouldn't just because she's you favorite cow.

 

[certherfbeef]

I was just telling Jake that I have become more of a hobby farmer than normal in the past 2 weeks.

Because of the prices at my local sale barn...I have shipped all the feeders and half the mature cow herd.
Some were sound cows yet. But fell into the situation that LA mentioned. Bull stud sent me blanks or very low fertility straws one time and the next time sent me a warm shipper. Which resulted in half my herd slipping a few weeks behind. There was a cow/calf sale at the local salebarn and I unloaded them.
With the flood damaged pastures that I am having to re-seed...I just couldn't justify keeping them and being forced to feed hay earlier this winter.
There are a lot of environmental factors that work into culling cattle as well as the obvious reproductive or maternal factors.

There have been several pairs here that get 3 strikes all in one swift swing. But others that get a foul ball or two before they finally strike out.
I would like to think that I cull just as hard on the commercial herd as I do the registered herd. But, I'm told that I expect more from the registered herd and therefore cull harder on them. Least that is what hubby says. But I think he is just sore cause I loaded most of these cattle out while he was at work. ;-)

 

[Bernard]

Decisions. There are true "no brainers" - don't put your finger in the light socket - and there are the others, the harder ones, the ones that involve a little thought. We all try to make the best decisions we can, weigh the variables as we see them, balance what we think we know against "what ifs", and finally come up with THE DECISION. Culling a cow is one of those decisions. Hopefully your mind is working on all eight cylinders at the time, but we all have our moments.

A cow SHOULD produce a calf every year. If she doesn't, there was a problem. Shipping her might cure the problem, but it might not. Might not have been her fault. And even if it was, is culling her the right thing to do financially? Many, many, "what ifs" involved in this little problem, and the variables can change over the course of a few days.

Several posters have already listed many factors that can and should play into this decision, and I bet we can all think of others. All I'm saying is that most of the decisions we make every day require some careful thought beforehand. Culling a cow is one of them. If she needs to go - send her. But make sure it's for the right reasons.

 

[jkwilson]

Good advice. You have to weigh each case as an individual, and assign blame appropriately. If 40% of your herd coes up open, don't just blindly cull without considering that most likely it's you, your AI technician or the bull(s) that are responsible.

I had a heifer come up open one year. Had the vet check her and he didn't see any physical problems. Made the decision to ship her, and put her in the lot with the feeders to put some weight on. Then her mother came up lame and wasn't getting any better. Two of the heifer's grand-dams had been really good cows, and now I was losing her mother, so I decided to give her a few more months, preg check and decide before I threw away those genetics. We've since gone to registered cattle and cut herd size by 75% (lost rented pasture to a subdivision) , but we still have her. We use her as an ET recip, although she had several nice calves herself. Perfect udder and she's the babysitter for all of the calves.

 

[WORANCH]

I believe in culling cows that have problems . I think an open cow cost you more than a good replacement will . you feed her for two winters ,
graze her all summer, give shots and worm , feed mineral . plus the lost income from the calf .
If you cull hard you may lose a few good cows ,but you will get all the bad ones...

 

[jcarkie]

i also use the strike method, like feet, age, calf condition,..etc, are a way to measure cows performance. if they lose a calf then it is goodbye, depending on circumstances. if they have a strike or two already then it is soooo long

 

[dun]

Circumstances dictates alot of what we do. We had a heifer last year that we pulled a 90lb dead calf from. She was on the culling list. After attending a bunch of sales I couldn;t find anything I liked to replacer her as much as I liked her (at a price I was willing to pay). This year she dropped a 60 lb heifer and in 6 weeks it's up to 202 lbs, in her case I think we made the right choice. But we have grass to waste so it's one more mouth eating what I would have to clip.

dun

 

[Farmhand]

Wow - what a shock to see this post. The advice I gave is such a common practice in our operation that I just kind of threw it out there. Never thought it would have much impact. I consider myself such a little guy in the big world of cattle that I'm impressed that anyone considered my thoughts worthwhile. Thanks.

WORANCH - I hear what you're saying but I have a little thought on this too. I see a problem with the cost figuring and I can't find a way around it. Maybe you can help. The only way I can see this working is if I got more for the cow I sold than what I paid for the replacement. The cost of feeding two winters, grazing, shots, mineral, etc. seems to be cancelled out of the decision to cull because I'd still be doing all of that - it would just be the replacement instead of the cow I already own. I haven't had much luck with getting more $ for my cull cows than I paid out for a replacement so now it looks like I'm $ down. Then too I don't know what the market will be when I'm ready to sell the replacements calf so I don't know if I can make up those $ there. This is why I have the exceptions in my operation. Cull the very obvious problems but I tend to hang on to the iffy ones.

Case in point - two years ago our bull came up lame. Couldn't see any obvious problems for the limp. Thought he sprained it, took the wait and see route, he healed up in about a week. Came time for our summer cows to calve. Some were right on schedule, some were strung out, and a couple came up open. Now if we were hard core cullers, we would have culled the open cows for sure and probably the strung out ones. We got to thinkin' about things and remembered the bull being lame for a short time so we again took the wait and see route. Next time every cow came up with calf and on time. We already owned those good cows. We would have been money down with replacements.

This is just one of the many reasons we have exceptions to every rule. Thanks to those who answered. Nice pick me up for another rainy day.

 

[Bama]

I have basically three sets of cattle. I buy young calves 150- 300 pounds and raise them to 600-800 depending on market. Then I have a set of cows that I bought as culls from someone else. I buy the ones I can fatten back up or otherwise get healthy and resell them. I look for the ones I can work with. Then I have a set of cows for producing calves. A cow ain't nothing but a babymaker. I work as a maintenance technician for a large manufacturing company and I don't have time to watch every move my cows make. Therefore I have to have ones that I can depend on to take care of themselves most of the time. In winter I see the everday but during summer I may not see them up close for a week at a time. I calve yearround. If I have one that I know is close I put her in a closer pasture where I can keep a eye on her. I like the 10% rule. If I cull 10 percent and keep 10% of the heifers I keep my same numbers. I get rid of the problems that I could have with older cows or problem cows. By doing this I save myself some headaches. When I say cull that means that I may put them in with the other bunch to be sold at a little later. I'm in the business for one thing and that is to make money. If I feed a cow through the winter and take in all the other carrying cost she just ain't worth it if she don't spit out and raise a healthy calf. She is taking up space that could be used by a good calf producer. Culling may not pay off in the very shorterm but over time it saves me money. You have to take into consideration how you run your operation. Grass condition and other factors must play a big part in your decision. I run my operation to get the maxium income for the least amount of cost possible.

 

[Dave]

Another related decision is is how or when to sell those cows you decide to cull. This needs to be done to maximize profits. I preg check all the cows in the fall when I wean the calves. Any that are open get on the bus to town right away. I don't want to feed hay to an open cow period. Cows that preg bred but raised a poor calf or are getting old are a tougher decision. Sometimes I hold them a while and sell as bred cows in January. Sometimes I will calf them out in the next spring and sell as a pair. That thin older cow that is bred is the hardest decision to figure out the most profit on. Cows that lose a calf to no fault of her own and that I am able to graft a calf on to get to stay one more year, but she better not lose another calf. Cows that wont take a graft calf or is at fault for losing a calf I keep until mid June and then I ship them. I always have plenty of spring grass to add pounds to these cows and our cull cow market is always the highest two weeks before the 4th of July weekend.

The timing and market will vary from region to region but having a well thought out marketing plan for cull cows will improve the bottom line.

Dave

 

[WORANCH]

Wow - what a shock to see this post. The advice I gave is such a common practice in our operation that I just kind of threw it out there. Never thought it would have much impact. I consider myself such a little guy in the big world of cattle that I'm impressed that anyone considered my thoughts worthwhile. Thanks.

WORANCH - I hear what you're saying but I have a little thought on this too. I see a problem with the cost figuring and I can't find a way around it. Maybe you can help. The only way I can see this working is if I got more for the cow I sold than what I paid for the replacement. The cost of feeding two winters, grazing, shots, mineral, etc. seems to be cancelled out of the decision to cull because I'd still be doing all of that - it would just be the replacement instead of the cow I already own. I haven't had much luck with getting more $ for my cull cows than I paid out for a replacement so now it looks like I'm $ down. Then too I don't know what the market will be when I'm ready to sell the replacements calf so I don't know if I can make up those $ there. This is why I have the exceptions in my operation. Cull the very obvious problems but I tend to hang on to the iffy ones.

Case in point - two years ago our bull came up lame. Couldn't see any obvious problems for the limp. Thought he sprained it, took the wait and see route, he healed up in about a week. Came time for our summer cows to calve. Some were right on schedule, some were strung out, and a couple came up open. Now if we were hard core cullers, we would have culled the open cows for sure and probably the strung out ones. We got to thinkin' about things and remembered the bull being lame for a short time so we again took the wait and see route. Next time every cow came up with calf and on time. We already owned those good cows. We would have been money down with replacements.

This is just one of the many reasons we have exceptions to every rule. Thanks to those who answered. Nice pick me up for another rainy day.

we cull cows in the fall when we wean calves, we preg ck. and all open cows are culled . I dont feed open cows.
If I buy replacements ( I don't buy many ) I do it in late winter or early spring, bred to calve in the spring .
That open cow would have to be fed two winters before she calved.

I can see your point about not culling your cows when you have a lame bull . The bull should of been replaced. Thats a management problem..

 

[Farmhand]

Thanks WORANCH - I get it now. You aren't feeding either the old cow or the replacement for a winter. Makes sense. I had a brain fart there.

As to the bull - I didn't have a whole lot of options at the time. There is a big price difference between selling a bull and buying a bull. I didn't want to put myself in too deep for what may not have been any problem at all. He was moving good with only a slight limp that may not have stopped him from breeding. Plus he had been with the cows long enough that he may have caught them all already. Timing was so iffy to make a really clear choice. If only I had hindsight.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Jake,
We don't cull cows unless they don't eat out of our feed bucket. I have several cows that haven't raised more that 2 calves in 5 years. They are our pets. Shame on you for killing cows that don't make you $1 in a year. Cows are put here for our enjoyment. Our daughter loves "Persimmon" her bucket calf, we've been laughed out of the county fair, but she's learning and so are we. Please give us "newbies" a chance, we love the outdoors just as much as you. Thanks for the + responses.

Not to step on your toes Zoe, But this thread is about gettin shed of what is costing a man money that's not making the grade.It's not about pet Cattle.Cull cattle are not all destined to be "killed" as you stated, some may be bought and used in another herd.Ever heard the Phrase "one man's trash, another man's treasure"This board deals with sometimes what might be called harsh realities to folks like yall', we're glad that you're here, but if the heat gets too hot, step out of the kitchen.Cattle and all other animals were put here for Food, but if you get pleasure of having them for pets, go for it, a bunch of us here have em' to pay bills with, in other words to make a living or a supplement to our day jobs. ;-)