Got a deal? Angus calf

[JHH]

Just got back from a registered angus sale and wanted some info. Where would I find the birth weight EPD or calve ease for HA IMAGE Maker 0415.

Any way I just bought a bull calf and will use him on some of my herefords for the great F1 baldies.

I may have bought what Doc calls a funnel butt I will try and post pics tommorow. The little bull is out of Image Maker and dam has a calve ease direct of + 10 and BW +.8 any idea what the calf should be as far as EPD's?

Bred heifers were bringing 2000.00 and 4and 5 yr olds bred back were bringing 1000.00 to 1500.00

Weaned bulls and heifers 575- 1000.00

Some S A V 8180 Traveler 004 Heifers 1 brought close to 3600.00 and one at 2200.00. Both just weaned and looked good.

 

[1982vett]

http://www.angus.org/registeredangus/index.html

 

[JHH]

http://www.angus.org/registeredangus/index.html

Thank you.

 

[RD-Sam]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

 

[JHH]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Dam is T L Hyline Pride 568 # 15179806

 

[RD-Sam]

Here is her EPD, not much to go on though. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 424B544544

It should bring the milk back down a little and offset that negative $EN some. It's a line breeding on Q A S Traveler 23-4, not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

 

[JHH]

Does Angus do like Hereford and just average the two for birth weight? Would he be considered a heifer bull?

 

[JHH]

I will get pics tommorow.

 

[Green Creek]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Enlighten me....how does too much milk cause a funnel butt?

 

[KNERSIE]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Enlighten me....how does too much milk cause a funnel butt?

I wouldn't go as far as saying milk will cause funnell butts, but milk and muscle are antagonistic traits, if you're going to push one too far you'll sacrifice the other and vice versa.

 

[RD-Sam]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Enlighten me....how does too much milk cause a funnel butt?

I wish I could tell you, I have asked Doc that very question a couple of times and never got an answer. It would seem to me that it might be the other way around if milk even had anything to do with funnel butts, I would think the calf would fill out better with plenty of milk, but what do I know, I am a novice. :dunce:

 

[RD-Sam]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Enlighten me....how does too much milk cause a funnel butt?

I wouldn't go as far as saying milk will cause funnell butts, but milk and muscle are antagonistic traits, if you're going to push one too far you'll sacrifice the other and vice versa.

Please explain in detail how that could be? And what is the theoretical range that the milk should be in?

 

[Frankie]

Here is the sire if I understand you correctly. http://www.angus.org/common/epd_ped_dtl ... 464B594640

What is the dams name or registration number?

Don't care much for that $EN number, and Doc will say that is way too much milk, which causes funnel butts. :lol2: He will also say that is too much year weight. :lol2: Carcass weight looks OK.

Enlighten me....how does too much milk cause a funnel butt?

I wish I could tell you, I have asked Doc that very question a couple of times and never got an answer. It would seem to me that it might be the other way around if milk even had anything to do with funnel butts, I would think the calf would fill out better with plenty of milk, but what do I know, I am a novice. :dunce:

The "trick" with milk is to match your milk EPD to the feed available for the cow. Milk is not free. If a cow has a higher milk EPD, she'll need more feed to maintain her condition to breed back. We would like to keep milk at 15 or below here because we run our cows on native grass in the summer. And on standing dry grass or bermuda hay (when we can get it) and cottonseed cubes in the winter. We've had some difficulty keeping milk in that range, though. If you're in an area with more rain and lots of quality forage, you can possibly support more milk.

Don't confuse fat and muscle. A high milking cow may wean a heavy calf, but if it's fat instead of muscle, it will melt away when he's no longer nursing.

I'm not surprised if you don't get an answer to your question. I don't know of any actual research that shows milk affects muscling. If someone has it, I'd like to read it. Sometimes people on the board confuse opinions with facts.

 

[Frankie]

Does Angus do like Hereford and just average the two for birth weight? Would he be considered a heifer bull?

Not necessarily. If there is a lot of info on the sire, dam, siblings, half sibs, the calf's EPDs won't necessarily be the average of his parents. At least for Angus.

I'd say he could be a heifer bull. The sire has a calving ease direct EPD of 8 and BW EPD of .6. Dam has 10 and .8. Unless there's a cow killer hiding somewhere further back in the family tree, he's probably ok to use on heifers. As a breed, Angus are easy calvers. The Angus Assn recommends using bulls with BW EPds of less than 3 on first calf heifers. Most of the bulls we use on first calves are in the 2 BW EPD area.

 

[RD-Sam]

Frankie, the way I am seeing this is that milk is calculated by the calf weight, so the milk number reflects how much milk the cow had available, which also reflects how much nutrition the cow had available. If I am wrong, somebody please correct me? The $EN is what it cost to keep the cow, positive number meaning it cost less. The EN number is calculated by the milk, I guess cause they figure a cow with a high milk number will take more to feed, thus cost more to keep, and have a lower EN number. Also I believe the frame score is used in the $EN value, the larger frame costing more to feed, thus a lower $EN number. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am new at this? :dunce:

 

[Frankie]

Frankie, the way I am seeing this is that milk is calculated by the calf weight, so the milk number reflects how much milk the cow had available, which also reflects how much nutrition the cow had available. If I am wrong, somebody please correct me? The $EN is what it cost to keep the cow, positive number meaning it cost less. The EN number is calculated by the milk, I guess cause they figure a cow with a high milk number will take more to feed, thus cost more to keep, and have a lower EN number. Also I believe the frame score is used in the $EN value, the larger frame costing more to feed, thus a lower $EN number. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am new at this? :dunce:

The milk EPD is pounds of calf, not pounds of milk.

Maternal Milk EPD (Milk), is a predictor of a sire's genetic merit for milk and mothering ability as expressed in his daughters compared to daughters of other sires. In other words, it is that part of a calf's weaning weight attributed to milk and mothering ability.

Cow Energy Value ($EN), expressed in dollars savings per cow per year, assesses differences in cow energy requirements as an expected dollar savings difference in daughters of sires. A larger value is more favorable when comparing two animals (more dollars saved on feed energy expenses). Components for computing the cow $EN savings difference include lactation energy requirements and energy costs associated with differences in mature cow size.

http://www.angus.org/sireeval/howto.html