mermill2
Well-known member
How much fluids does a normal 85 lb calf need, daily? How much does the same calf, but is sick with scours, need daily? Thanks gary
giving fluids
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mermill2":332xcmie said:
It's going to vary according to temperature, amount of activity, whether they are eating solid food, what kind of feed, age, etc, but just as a ball park figure I think it's somewhere around 2 to maybe 5 gallons of water/day. A scouring calf is going to require much more because scours depletes fluids, messes up electrolyte balance, and causes dehydration. I know the requirement for fluids goes up dramatically, but I don't know how dramatically as it's going to vary based on the severity of the scours. All I can suggest is to test your calf for dehydration by using the skin pinch test and go from there. If he is very dehydrated you might want to talk to your vet about administering fluids sub-q in addition to the electrolytes.
There is an electrolyte called Hydrafeed. It's hard to find...we order it from animart.com. It doesn't cure the scours, of course, but it is absorbed quickly and can get a half dead calf on its feet w/in hours. The problem I've found with it is that sometimes the calf then prefers the Hydrafeed to milk. It's like a double edged sword. And, it's expensive...about $4 a packet.
Alice
Alice
A word of caution - there are no sure fire solutions when it comes to cattle. For every rule there is always, always an exception, and for every treatment there is always an animal that will not respond.
mermill2
Well-known member
Thanks for your'll inputs. I try to get as much info, from cattlemen and cattlewomen, vets, try to use common sense. I figure the more I know, look and observe our calf or whatever animal is sick, or injured, or just strange behavior, and go from there. From what I can tell, there are 3 major causes of scours, viral, bacterial, protozoa. Are there any more? I think it usually best to know what you are fighting. Any comments, any other ideas, etc. It is all appreciated. Merry
randiliana
Well-known member
mermill2":ujxv9mpx said:
Milk can also cause scours in calves. It is usually not a problem, just that they are getting too much of it.
One suggestion on feeding electrolytes to a severely dehydrated calf is to feed smaller amounts more frequently. We have had much better luck doing it that way than by feeding the whole dose at once. I believe that their stomach slows down and that it just can't handle digesting a large dose. We have had too many calves die with the full dose just sloshing around in their stomachs. By feeding them a smaller dose, they seem to be able to digest it.
randiliana":3jef0ykx said:
Oh heck yeah, Randi, ain't that the truth. It's a miserable, sick feeling when you hear the sloshing of the electrolytes when they are dead. It's always made me wonder why you're supposed to feed all of this...this meaning their milk, then electrolytes sometime later, then milk again, then electrolytes. And when a calf won't drink and has to be tubed, it just seems so, I don't know, almost heartless, to tube a calf a half bottle of something a gazillion times a day.
One mistake I won't make again, ever...I'll never tube a calf that feels or looks full...or has a sloshing stomach.
Alice
mermill2
Well-known member
Hi, everybody. Please , excuse any typos. Thanks, again for suggestions. I hate to tube, her, but she has refused the bottle. I talked to the vet's assistant, and he said that they usually won't take a bottle, if they were nursing off her mother. I will be try again to she if she will drink her stuff. I really, don;t like t tube feed. giving her elcectroltes, and some milk replacer I am giving the probois, also. Shes is taking that orally, she kinda likes it. So, is a possibilty of her taking a bottle, maybe. last temp was 102, she seems alert, walks around some, still has sticky yellow Poop ( pardon my French!) We are feeling her belly, to see about fullness, checking her skin, And at times we have an audience, Momma watches,pretty close. She seems to be an attentive mother, a young mother, very agile and athletic. It could be awhile, til the calf gets over this. I have heard like 2 week or more. The calf is a stong, sick one. I hope she gets over this, before she has beat us to a pulp. Gary has a bad arm, I have diabetic neuropathy, so I can't run or hide, sometimes, not walk too wel l in the field. I do like these animals. Merry P.S. I hope she gets over this, you never know
Merry, if her poop is sticky and yellow, I'd call that a good sign.
Also, do yourself a favor and get one of those tubes that are straight and made of stainless steel.
Those curved plastic tubes get scratched up and will scratch the calf's throat. Also, the plastic tubes can become misplaced tooooo easily and the calf could drown because of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Alice
Also, do yourself a favor and get one of those tubes that are straight and made of stainless steel.
Those curved plastic tubes get scratched up and will scratch the calf's throat. Also, the plastic tubes can become misplaced tooooo easily and the calf could drown because of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Alice
Alice, maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather have a plastic tube with some "flex" to it than a stiff metal one. Just seems easier on the animal. The plastic ones I get are designed for tubing calves, and I've heard it said that due to the bulb on the end, you cannot get it down the wrong way. Maybe, maybe not, but I know I've never gotten fluids into the lungs.
I dislike tubing 'em too - simply because they obviously don't like it! - but at the same time if that's the only way to get fluids in you'd better believe I'm going to do it without hesitation.
Folks, keep in mind that when checking the skin, it is said that an animal must lose 6% of their body weight before signs of dehydration become apparent. So just because they don't "look" dehydrated, doesn't mean they aren't. You can also use the eyes - calf's eyes, that is - as a measure of how dehydrated they are. I tned to think the eyes show dehydration first.
I dislike tubing 'em too - simply because they obviously don't like it! - but at the same time if that's the only way to get fluids in you'd better believe I'm going to do it without hesitation.
Folks, keep in mind that when checking the skin, it is said that an animal must lose 6% of their body weight before signs of dehydration become apparent. So just because they don't "look" dehydrated, doesn't mean they aren't. You can also use the eyes - calf's eyes, that is - as a measure of how dehydrated they are. I tned to think the eyes show dehydration first.
milkmaid":2e5zo96n said:
I used to think that about the plastic tubes, also...until I needed a new one quick and the only one I could find was the stainless steel one. It seems to cause much less stress on the calf and the bulb on the end is designed to not go where it's not supposed to go. And, if the calf falls, or twists out from under you, the tube stays in place. I think it's a matter of personal choice and you are obviously comfortable with the plastic one. and the way I look at it, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
One time several years back, I was tubing a calf with the plastic tube. That calf twisted out from under me, I twisted my ankle, the calf went down and I went down. The results were deadly. The very next day a calf raiser and his 10 year old daughter were at the farm. The daughter came over where I was and out of nowhere said, "Ya' know, if a calf falls down while you're tubing it, it'll drown the calf." In my head I thought, "no sh*t." I just stared at the kid and said, "Honey, I think I hear your daddy calling you."
I also look at a calf's eyes for dehydration. If they look a little bit sunken and dull, they get electrolytes, whether they get it tubed or they can drink it from the bottle. I'm not comfortable with the skin pinch test. I'm not quick enough to see if the skin stays tented and if it gets to a point that I can see it's tented, the calf's gone way too far with the dehydration.
Alice
randiliana
Well-known member
Alice":32i84wlc said:
We use the plastic ones as well. Like the rest of you I prefer not to use it but if they won't drink, I sure don't hesitate. The new plastic ones are also designed so they don't go where they are not supposed to. I usually tube the calf while he is laying down. I honestly don't see how either type of tube would stay in place if the calf fell down or escaped. I would think that it would be pulled out regardless and I would think that it would be way easier on the calf if it was a flexible plastic tube. As for drowning, it certainly can happen, but with the newer tubes it is way less likely. We have never drowned one yet (knock on wood).
One other thing to remember, is to keep all your equipment clean, especially things like tubes!!
Susie David
Well-known member
We use the plastic, our's has a bulb on the tip and isn't scratched though it doesn't get used all that often. I personally like to keep my hand on the calf's throat when I tube, I can feel the bulb as it slides down...don't feel the bulb stop and reposition. Just my two bits worth Dmc
mermill2
Well-known member
Thanks to all, little calf seems to be better. As they say in the hospital, look at the patient. Anyway, she seems better this pm. Jumping around, bucking, kicking out her right rear leg. She is brighter this pm. About those tubes, when I first had to feed out bull calf, last year. I went to the vet, asked him how, got the proper equipment. My vet, had the closeable bag with the plastic tube with the bulb on the end. That is what I used on him. I didn;t know about a steel one. They all seem to have pros and cons. Merry
mermill2
Well-known member
Hi, to everybody. The calf is nursing her mother, parttime. The mother is with her all night. We have looked at the udders', we have noticed some of the quarters have been nursed out and back to being full.Thus am, she was jumping, running, and poop is in solid piles. Seems that the scours might be over with. But we will continue to check her, and give supportive care as needed. I had never hardly heard her moo, she really can moo now. She was following Gary around. Energetic, bright eyed and bushy-tailed. Thanks for your suggestions, questions, and comments. As in the Hippocratic Oath( not exact quote) First is to do no harm. I think we all try to do that. Thanks again, we really appreciate the knowledge, you people have, and freely give to us and one another.This is one of the best boards, on the internet, that I have been one. Merry
mermill2
Well-known member
Hi, to all. Yes, I really do know that a cow has just one udder, with quarters. Sometimes, my fingers are faster tham my typing, sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain. Thanks again to all. We just were over there, poop looks pasty, like a calf's patty. She is alert, mooing at Momma. Looking around, bucked a little bit, laying down some. Acting more like a normal calf, she gets up and tries to escape us. Before , she would just lay there. Temp is 101.8. Still has a nose problem, tingue of clear mucous fluid. Thanks, Alice , woooooo!!!!!! ;-) Any more suggestions or comments, or questions are appreciated from all. I'm still watching her for pneumonia.
