Genex Bulls Simmental

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ozzyo70

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So we got a new AI tech that handles Genex, our other retired. So for the hand full we're breeding this year we're using High Roller and Top Grade(3/4). Just wondering what sim bulls others like from Genex.

Thanks
 
Currently using Triple C Singletary(and his full sib, Bettis - at Accelerated, on heifers), but don't think he's producing any more - or may be dead;
Intend to use Upgrade within the next year or so.
Would use Beef King in a minute if a red bull was in the plan - though, at least on the website, they're not showing him as available.
Lot to like about Lucky Dice, for my program - but spotting gene could be a problem. May have to pull the trigger on him, in spite of it - REA & Shr are hard to beat.
 
We like Upgrade, and his EPD's are the top. Look at his yearling epd! We really like his calves and his daughters are doing a good job raising calves. I really think he is going tone the next Dream On....
Club King is another we like to use, and really like his calves. We sold a two year old Club King heifer in our state sale with a really nice 30 day old Grandmaster bull calf, she brought $3000. She was worth it, very nice cow with great udder.
We like our Mo Better calves also. He will add some white on the face usually.
 
Fire Sweep Ranch":269u8m3m said:
We like Upgrade, and his EPD's are the top. Look at his yearling epd! We really like his calves and his daughters are doing a good job raising calves. I really think he is going tone the next Dream On....
Club King is another we like to use, and really like his calves. We sold a two year old Club King heifer in our state sale with a really nice 30 day old Grandmaster bull calf, she brought $3000. She was worth it, very nice cow with great udder.
We like our Mo Better calves also. He will add some white on the face usually.
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We looked at Upgrade but since we are using them on our younger ones we went with his son Top Grade who's number I really like as well. I also really want to try Club King in the near future, he is an impressive looking bull. Also Fire Sweep I have really enjoyed the pics you posted recently. Really nice animals.... :tiphat:
 
ozzyo70":r7ekurh5 said:
Fire Sweep Ranch":r7ekurh5 said:
We like Upgrade, and his EPD's are the top. Look at his yearling epd! We really like his calves and his daughters are doing a good job raising calves. I really think he is going tone the next Dream On....
Club King is another we like to use, and really like his calves. We sold a two year old Club King heifer in our state sale with a really nice 30 day old Grandmaster bull calf, she brought $3000. She was worth it, very nice cow with great udder.
We like our Mo Better calves also. He will add some white on the face usually.
Click to expand...

We looked at Upgrade but since we are using them on our younger ones we went with his son Top Grade who's number I really like as well. I also really want to try Club King in the near future, he is an impressive looking bull. Also Fire Sweep I have really enjoyed the pics you posted recently. Really nice animals.... :tiphat:
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Why thank you. :)
I have some Top Grade in my tank, but have yet to use him. His first calves are going to be yearlings, if I remember correctly, so I would like to start seeing some of them. I have heard mixed reviews. I have seen him at Genex twice now, I did not buy semen after the first time I saw him, but did after the second. I have some pics I took of him last fall when I was there, not the best pics but you get a general idea. We use Upgrade on heifers without any problems, but we are breeding purebred simmental heifers. I always look for at least a 5 point spread between CE and BW to use on our heifers. I WOULD NOT use Mo Better on heifers. :shock:
Good luck with your cattle, and keep us posted on your Top Grade calves. He is one I am watching.
 
FS not to sound dumb but what do you mean by 5 point spread? When I'm looking at bulls for heifers I try to balance the CE, BW and the %AC on them both then look at the bulls actual birth weight but I look at that last cause I know that it sometimes doesn't mean much but sometimes it does. Still trying to get use to the epd change especially when you grab an old sire catalog. Our herd is about 75% PB and 25% 1/2 and 3/4 Sim. We have black, red and some traditional. This spring we got 2 bulls out of a fullblood bull Double Bar D Maddox. They look pretty nice so far and a nice Rushmore bull. I'll let ya know how the Top Grades turn out.
 
We don't use any bulls with Legacy in their background --since 90% of all PBSM do. Upgrade is good, but an 11.1 CE isn't good enough for heifers --needs to be at least 13. BW is not what we would say is "great" either. Marbling and Shr are weak. Quality pounds will always pay more than quantity pounds and a bull with a more balanced set of EPD's across the board , including API and TI indices; are better individuals anyway when breeding to cows with various and sometimes numerous deficiencies. The problem I have with him is more punk Legacy in his background and we sure don't need anymore of that


Anyway check out GW Robust if you are just breeding low API /TI cows or commercial cows https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2694778 he isnt on the market yet but you can get semen from GW i''m sure.

If you are hell bent on using a Legacy bred bull --the best is GW Comfort Zone

GrandMaster is a terrible choice in a bull --a true cull --- Triple C Singletary has horrific CE and BW with a dose of more Legacy to boot.

Bettis isn't too bad but low API and TI -- you can do better than that. Club king is 10 points off average for the breed -- an Inbred double 600 U calf

You know you can buy semen anywhere ---you don't have to get it from only a semen company.

This breeding season we used GW Predestined 701 T (since 2011, his calves bring $3000 at weaning)

GW Premium Beef (we have kept all the Premium Beef heifers) heifers make great cows....

GW Comfort Zone (MGS > GW Premium Beef ) for carcass merit bulls along with off the charts CE and BW.

WHS Limelight PBAN if ya wanna brag about YW check him out https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2545800

GAR Selective -- check him out > https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2472158

Brown Comittment PBAR >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...t_performAnimalSearch=T&animalNumbers=2456766

AAR Ten X PBAN > https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...t_performAnimalSearch=T&animalNumbers=2566684

Rito Tremendous PBAN >>> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...t_performAnimalSearch=T&animalNumbers=2578952

GW Redestined >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...t_performAnimalSearch=T&animalNumbers=2566964

We will also have the highest API/TI Red Angus sired Red SimAngus bull in the US --- available next year with API 181 and TI 101.

Just a few breeding candidates -- if ya look for them.....

JS
 
Thanks JS, good response. Like other Sim herds we have our fair share of Legacy. I'm totally against using bulls with Legacy in there past but I want to start using ones with him a few more generations back. We have a really nice Bettis x Power Drive and a Big Sky x Beef Maker right now. We've only been doing AI for 4 or 5 years now so wanting a bigger variety of bulls wasn't an issue the first few years. We have a tech do the arm service and we don't have our own tank. The techs we've used so far don't mind to much storing other semen from other companies but their not really crazy about it either, they just charge a couple bucks more per service. We're really considering getting our own tank though.
 
About getting your own semen tank : after the spring breeding season is over ABS will have a lot of "used tanks" for sale >> ABS sends a lot of semen to the western herds in new tanks as "Shippers" then sells them as "used" after the season is over-- you can pick up a barely used tank cheap this way -- thats what we did years ago and even now when I need a "new one"

If you go into this ASA website and look at the top 50 bulls used in 2013 you will see the following bulls: https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/pages.PagesAction/eventSubmit_displayPage/T/pageId/14/
Upgrade, HSF, Ollie, Manifest, All Legacy bloodlines --also Cut above goes back to MV Red Light that was really popular back in the late 80's, but was proven to have feet problems and I cant imagine people proliferating that potential problem even today -- I wouldn't ever use him. Sure Bet is a non-Legacy individual I have used in the past -- he is light years better that anything above him on that list with No Legacy; GrandMaster is a true Cull --should have gone to the stockyard years ago; RC Club King has 600 U twice in his bloodline an inbred cull at best, but the show people don't care as they are looking for the shoe box with legs calf that wont ever make it in a production herd anyway; Tanker is next on the List --what do ya know More Legacy-- his API is below average for the whole breed. This list is confusing --its not the Top 50 sires --- Its the Top 50 USED in 2013, anyway go look at that list and see all the Legacy nightmares on that list lol

I don't have any Bettis or Power Drive in my herd and I have never considered using them. years ago we had some ER Big Sky cows and he was popular in the mid 90's -- A foundation herd sire in the red category. Beef Maker was our only choice in Red for years and years and many people used Dream On and HSF to produce red ---all Legacy bloodlines.

What we did is take CNS Dream On and Beef Maker daughters and bred them to GW Redestined a 3/4 SA bull and before 2013, those calves were grandfathered into the PB category -- here is an example of that > https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/ ... er=2662461 I just sold this calf recently for 3K Actual BW: 74 lbs Actual WW 751 lbs --No creep


What a lot of Simm breeders don't understand -- sadly -- is what the EPD's and the index(s) really mean: if you're keeping replacements use API,
if you are raising market cattle use TI. What we are doing is trying to raise bulls and heifers with both high API and TI -- so the buyer then has all the options.
The best tool we have as Simmental and SimAngus breeders is the planned mating page >

https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/ ... lanMate.vm

insert a dam # like 2606986 and this sire# 2566684 check out this calfs API and TI and EPD's API and TI blows Upgrade away

Another thing too--- you might consider Embryo Transfer -- we will have some embryos in 2014

JS
 
So JS, I certainly do not mean this to be a slam on the Simmental breed session, but what is the problem with Legacy bred cattle? There are a bunch of them out there and as with any group, there are some bad apples, but most that I have seen and bred have been great. What makes Legacy cattle so horrible?
And what is the "grandfathered into the PB category"? I have not heard of that, so I am not sure what you are talking about there. We are newer simmental breeders, but stand behind our stock and cut heavy each year. We look mostly at API since we are breeding replacement females, and I really do not believe that "most simm breeders don't understand the EPD's and what the index really mean", because most of the serious breeders I have learned from push those two numbers the most! They seem to understand it just fine from my experience.
I am sure there are a bunch of breeders, me being one of them, that will disagree with your statement of Grandmaster. Of our limited experience, we have had some fantastic calves out of him. Sure, he is not the cure all, but used on the right cow he can work.
What is wrong with 600U? I have been told he is the best thing to have in a pedigree to make females. I am not as familiar with him, since he is much older like 734. Just because an animal has a sire twice in the pedigree makes it a cull? Why?
Just trying to learn something new. It always amazes me how different people have different opinions about the cattle they breed. I guess, in the end, it matters what you are happy with when it loads onto the trailer to its new home, and you can live with yourself that you sold a fine animal for a fair price!

Oh, and by the way, this statement you made "but the show people don't care as they are looking for the shoe box with legs calf that wont ever make it in a production herd anyway;" is certainty NOT truein all cases. EVERYONE of our heifers we show MUST go home and produce a calf at 2 years, and KEEP producing or they are on the next truck out of here! PERIOD! No exceptions. We are too small to not have them go home and produce.
 
When we look for bulls to AI our heifers. First thing is to get a calf on the ground just like everyone else wants. After that we try to keep as many AI'd heifers as replacements as long as they make the grade. So looking at API is tops on the list. I also think there is nothing wrong with Legacy ( Sorry I meant to say "I'm NOT totally against" in an earlier post) :oops: . The only issue is when you have Legacy based herd bulls and then you need to find AI bulls. That's why it's nice to plenty of options. I have been curious about Grandmaster. He still looks like a nice bull with good numbers. It was interesting though since he started with such high CE and has dropped sooo far, but haven't heard anything bad about him either.
 
So JS, I certainly do not mean this to be a slam on the Simmental breed session, but what is the problem with Legacy bred cattle? There are a bunch of them out there and as with any group, there are some bad apples, but most that I have seen and bred have been great. What makes Legacy cattle so horrible?
Click to expand...

Legacy has been way over used to the point of way past inbreeding in some cases. Legacy was good in HIS DAY 1999+. Mainly it has been the overuse of Hooks Shear Force, CNS Dream On, which both go back to Legacy 151.

Here is a prime example >> https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2401259

And what is the "grandfathered into the PB category"? I have not heard of that, so I am not sure what you are talking about there.
Click to expand...

Before 2013, a ¾ SimAngus bull when bred to a Purebred cow – the offspring was considered a Purebred. It changed in 2013 the offspring is now a 7/8 SimAngus. The calf in my example was such a breeding, but as you can see is listed as a Purebred since he was born in 2012. https://herdbook.simmental.org/simm...ntSubmit_displayAnimal=T&animalNumber=2662461

We are newer simmental breeders, but stand behind our stock and cut heavy each year. We look mostly at API since we are breeding replacement females, and I really do not believe that "most simm breeders don't understand the EPD's and what the index really mean", because most of the serious breeders I have learned from push those two numbers the most! They seem to understand it just fine from my experience.
Click to expand...

If what you say was really true and "many of the breeders" followed API and TI then when we went in the ASA website https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/action/pages.PagesAction/eventSubmit_displayPage/T/pageId/14/ we would not see the Low API and TI and the Legacy abundance within the pages of the top 50 Sires used in 2013 would we? Surely we wouldn't see the likes of Upgrade, Hooks Shear Force, Ollie, Grandmaster, Club King, Manifest, Flying B Cut Above and the various other low API TI cattle on that list. "Serious Breeders" are the key words here.

I am sure there are a bunch of breeders, me being one of them, that will disagree with your statement of Grandmaster. Of our limited experience, we have had some fantastic calves out of him. Sure, he is not the cure all, but used on the right cow he can work.
Click to expand...

When Grandmaster first hit the scene ASA found out that the owners were cooking the books on that bull – nevertheless his numbers plummeted and they are still terrible –
What part of his EPD's do you like? His 46 WW EPD, his 66 YW EPD, maybe it is his 10.7 CW or 8.2 CE or maybe it could be his 59.3 TI --- he is a cull. Grandmaster heifers have had some fertility issues as well.

What is wrong with 600U? I have been told he is the best thing to have in a pedigree to make females. I am not as familiar with him, since he is much older like 734. Just because an animal has a sire twice in the pedigree makes it a cull? Why?
Click to expand...

Again 600 U was great in HIS DAY -- 1988..... a foundation sire, but in today's standards he is just an average joe – it is genetic improvement over time. Same goes with Meyer 734 – great in HIS DAY.

Any animal that has the same sire twice in his bloodline and on the same side is INBRED – and for a PB breeder is no good for breeding, but for commercial operations where cattle all go to market that's ok I guess.... I'd prefer not to see it at all myself, that way the commercial guy might feel better about keeping some heifers – we need to be breeding the kind of bulls that gives the commercial guy all the options.

Just trying to learn something new. It always amazes me how different people have different opinions about the cattle they breed. I guess, in the end, it matters what you are happy with when it loads onto the trailer to its new home, and you can live with yourself that you sold a fine animal for a fair price!
Click to expand...

True --- But think about it this way – If 8000 heifers were born to Hooks Shear Force and 5000 heifers to CNS Dream On (both with Legacy bloodlines) last year and then you threw in the countless other heifers born to the sons and grandsons of those two Sires like Beefmaker and 100 others------ What do you think they need to breed those heifers to? – You guessed right –A Non-Legacy Bull

Oh, and by the way, this statement you made "but the show people don't care as they are looking for the shoe box with legs calf that wont ever make it in a production herd anyway;" is certainty NOT truein all cases. EVERYONE of our heifers we show MUST go home and produce a calf at 2 years, and KEEP producing or they are on the next truck out of here! PERIOD! No exceptions. We are too small to not have them go home and produce.
Click to expand...

I've seen a lot of show heifers never make it in a production herd without a bucket close at hand --- and we all need to remember Nothing is absolutely true in ALL CASES –that's always a given.

and Welcome to Simmental

JS
 
Seen your post JS so I emailed ASA. Today you can still bred a 3/4 to a PB and get a PB so I hope your wrong.........that's my way of getting away from so much Legacy. I think Legacy is a good thing but I also do not like in breeding. But any heifer not related to Shear Force I try to make another heifer. They are just flat out good cows. I got 20 units left and will use few every year. Shear Force on top 50 sires is #1 API bull and still good MWW #s.
 
Till-Hill":mewt8xp0 said:
Seen your post JS so I emailed ASA. Today you can still bred a 3/4 to a PB and get a PB so I hope your wrong.........that's my way of getting away from so much Legacy. I think Legacy is a good thing but I also do not like in breeding. But any heifer not related to Shear Force I try to make another heifer. They are just flat out good cows. I got 20 units left and will use few every year. Shear Force on top 50 sires is #1 API bull and still good MWW #s.
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Till-Hill I found the same thing on the ASA site as well. I remember see the chart a while back. If they do change it then I guess we'll have to live with it. What I like about the 3/4+PB=PB is that it makes the bulls like Redestine (that JS mentioned), Lucky Charm and others a great option. They all have something good to offer plus some new blood. We have had simmi's since the mid '80's the nice big heavy milking tradional sim's. The problem was that back then my Dad didn't keep up with the paperwork. Now in the past 8 years or so we've started registering and keeping up with the paper stuff. So I've had to dealing with 1/2 SM 1/2 CS and breeding them back up to PB. It is one of the nice things about the ASA.
 
Yes if they change it we will have to live with it but under that I probably have no use for Redestined, Substance, Lucky Charm.....but today I got semen on all of them as well as bred at 1/2 bloods so far to PB bulls to have my own bred and raised PB's in another generation.......Was planning on using all them 3/4 blood bulls to lower my inbreeding on the PB cows next few years so I hope it holds for now.
 
Yes if they change it we will have to live with it but under that I probably have no use for Redestined, Substance, Lucky Charm.....but today I got semen on all of them as well as bred at 1/2 bloods so far to PB bulls to have my own bred and raised PB's in another generation.......Was planning on using all them 3/4 blood bulls to lower my inbreeding on the PB cows next few years so I hope it holds for now.
Click to expand...

I do think they are going to change it --- back in January when the new data came online; I was doing some plan matings and saw where the offspring from 3/4 + PB was coming to 7/8's-- then mysteriously ASA stopped putting up the offsprings percentage or PB. So, I figured they were going to roll out this new deal at the National Convention this summer. --we'll see.... if they dont do it that will just mean that I will have some really high PB's coming along -- here try this match mating and tell me what you think > https://herdbook.simmental.org/simmapp/template/plannedMating,PlanMate.vm Dam > 2606986 Sire > 2605948 (3/4 + PB = PB)

CE: 18.7
Brth -2.4
Wean 58.2
Year 92.7
MCE 15.4
Milk 28.1
MWW 57.2
Stay ---
CW 21.9
YG -0.35
Marb 0.48
BF -0.06
REA 0.88
Shr -0.40
API 166
TI 80
 
First one I'm just not a fan of Mytty in Focus. Robs alot of butt in cattle, IMO...be darn good calf tho.

2nd one I just wish Select would get a new pic of Selective. Used unit sexed female on a Grandmaster heifer. Think they going to be great cattle. Huge #'s!

3rd one # wise be hard not to like......pedigree wise not my cup of tea besides the Objective!

Some good #'d cattle tho. One thing I'm lacking. I got some time and a few cows we going to try really hard on.
 

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