Genetics and Herd Expansion

[CattleMan1920]

Perhaps my observations and experiences are wrong who knows? Only time will tell. I think Impossible Meats is wretched, but nobody got upset when I stated my opinion on that one. I think Grass fed is a marketing gimmick that leads people into thinking they are eating healthier meat. I disagree, but who cares?

My comments were not directed at any CT member in particular.

We all have opinions, I posted mine.

 

[Redgully]

Right breed on grass is bloody good meat, murray grey, red poll. A lot of Europeans like gamey taste in their meat. There is a place for everyone in the market.

 

[wbvs58]

Our Channel Country that fringes the desert in western Queensland, it may not get a drop of rain on it but when the rivers feeding it flood out over the channels on the way to Lake Eyre the grasses and herbage that grows will fatten bullocks faster than that achieved in feedlots. That meat is hard to beat.

Ken

 

[Ebenezer]

If you switch to grassfed beef you suddenly have the option to have cattle of any color without sale barn discounts. That let's you use crossbreeding and hybrid vigor to make the program work even better. But you need to learn the type of cattle which will work for you before you buy a bull or semen. And I will repeat: you will need to learn to grow annuals regardless of what breeds you use to make the finish on animals more than an average or better spring flush. I think it is harder than it looks in articles when you make the efforts.

For someone that decries promotion and commotion, I would think the "grass-fed" craze would be right up your alley.

Grass-fed is a JOKE! Plain and simple. Go to any top steakhouse, and I mean where the experience means something, and they sure as heck are not serving a piece of shoe leather. Laura's lean beef is so gross, it really should only be for hamburger or dog food.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing like a grain finished, prime Angus or Hereford steak. Everything else falls in line behind them.

Grass-fed beef is supposed to connotate some level of quality, but in actuality, its a bunch of calico, Heinz 57 cattle with little to no forethought put into the carcass quality.

You can feed them anything they like Eb, but they will always be inferior to grain finished. It' no contest.

You have convinced me that my views of cattle are all wrong. So I have gone into dog breeding now. I plan to raise chihuahuas and will concentrate on making them to top out at least at 600 pounds and males will be bred to have semen as thick as molasses. We will have a Vet on standby to do 14 preg checks on each matron, each puppy will be DNAed dozens of time to be sure to be sure to be sure just to be sure, the grunts around here will clip the lawn for them every day and cook them CAB steaks (none better I heard) and no expense will be spared. It's where it ought to be. You know, be there or be square. Price will be outrageous but who cares, right? We don't want to deal with folks, especially neighbors, with mutts and common breeds as we know superior when we say it is superior. :lol:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Makes good jerky I do know that.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

If you switch to grassfed beef you suddenly have the option to have cattle of any color without sale barn discounts. That let's you use crossbreeding and hybrid vigor to make the program work even better. But you need to learn the type of cattle which will work for you before you buy a bull or semen. And I will repeat: you will need to learn to grow annuals regardless of what breeds you use to make the finish on animals more than an average or better spring flush. I think it is harder than it looks in articles when you make the efforts.

For someone that decries promotion and commotion, I would think the "grass-fed" craze would be right up your alley.

Grass-fed is a JOKE! Plain and simple. Go to any top steakhouse, and I mean where the experience means something, and they sure as heck are not serving a piece of shoe leather. Laura's lean beef is so gross, it really should only be for hamburger or dog food.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing like a grain finished, prime Angus or Hereford steak. Everything else falls in line behind them.

Grass-fed beef is supposed to connotate some level of quality, but in actuality, its a bunch of calico, Heinz 57 cattle with little to no forethought put into the carcass quality.

You can feed them anything they like Eb, but they will always be inferior to grain finished. It' no contest.

Don't you actually re-read what you write? You are extremely offensive and arrogant. You can have an opinion, but you can't just express your opinion, you have to bash everything.
I let your comment slide by, but who do you think you are claiming only Angus or Herefords make top grade carcasses?
I will have you know my own pure bred Simmentals have taken GRAND CHAMPION CARCASS contests multiple times - against mainly Angus and Herefords.
You need to THINK before you TYPE. You think people "pick" on you - but YOU ASK FOR IT - time and time again.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

We have been producing grass-fed beef for close to a decade now, and regardless of the breed, you need to focus on genetics that are a bit more moderate framed, easy fleshing, with higher marbling. You do not need to chase the highest growth bulls for to be successful at grass-finishing. Grass-fed beef is naturally leaner than grain-fed beef, but we have steers that will grade choice on grass at 2 years of age. We raise Murray Greys and have been selectively breeding for tenderness and marbling genes, amongst other things such as fertility, phenotype, disposition, etc. I have to say that for our operation, they have been the perfect fit.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

As I pointed out, you will have more time involved in the finishing process, but keep in mind, you will want to have steers processed before 30 months of age.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Perhaps my observations and experiences are wrong who knows? Only time will tell. I think Impossible Meats is wretched, but nobody got upset when I stated my opinion on that one. I think Grass fed is a marketing gimmick that leads people into thinking they are eating healthier meat. I disagree, but who cares?

My comments were not directed at any CT member in particular.

We all have opinions, I posted mine.

Lets look at that again:

For someone that decries promotion and commotion, I would think the "grass-fed" craze would be right up your alley.

Grass-fed is a JOKE! Plain and simple. Go to any top steakhouse, and I mean where the experience means something, and they sure as heck are not serving a piece of shoe leather. Laura's lean beef is so gross, it really should only be for hamburger or dog food.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing like a grain finished, prime Angus or Hereford steak. Everything else falls in line behind them.

Grass-fed beef is supposed to connotate some level of quality, but in actuality, its a bunch of calico, Heinz 57 cattle with little to no forethought put into the carcass quality.

You can feed them anything they like Eb, but they will always be inferior to grain finished. It' no contest.

The first part (which I was not originally commenting on) is a direct personal insult to the person you were replying to. You state that the thing you are about to denigrate seems to be right up their alley. Then you state as if factual what you then weasel around with as your "opinion" after you get push-back.

The insult that I took issue with is your ignorant claim (not opinion, a claim) that grass-fed producers don't put any forethought into carcass quality. I know a number of ranchers that do grass-fed, and carcass quality is one of their highest interests and priorities. Just because your breed - or your particular animals - may not do what those ranchers want doesn't mean other cattle don't fit the bill.

"It's just my opinion" is a sorry excuse for rude behavior. You have some nice fat cattle, your enthusiasm and pride are fine. Why denigrate and insult what others do? No need for that.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Show me grass fed that looks like this and I will say that I was wrong.

Also Jeanne, show me something that is not Angus or Hereford that looks like this and I will say I was wrong.

My neighbor across the road is trying to fatten a rainbow group of steers on grass over the summer, not a single one in there will produce a product like this.

https://youtu.be/9gg_jjUb-S4

 

[CattleMan1920]

To the grass fed producers:

I would like to clear the air and clarify some of my comments

While many are quick to say that I denigrate their herd or that I am a despicable human being, let's quickly focus on all the nasty comments on my cattle. Jeanne has said repeatedly that they are morbidly obese, this comment can cause damage, and lead someone who has not seen my herd in person to form a negative opinion. Both BR and TT recently saw the herd in person, and they went away with the knowledge and proof that they are just big, deep bodied cows, not lard tubs as Ebenezer has described them.

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

The producers that I have seen in my area that are going the "grass fed" route are buying up 3 weights at the yards, putting them out in a field with little to no vaccine, mineral, or much of anything other than grass, weeds, and water, and hoping they hit 5 weights at some point at which they try to resell them for a small profit. The herds are typically every color in the rainbow, hence my calico comment and Heinz 57. Even the folks at the feed mill call their own herds "Rainbow cows". There is absolutely no forethought put into what they are doing, or the carcass quality, or anything, other than keeping them alive long enough and putting weight on them in order to get them to the next destination. Grass fed for many producers means one thing, and lets call it for what it really is, ZERO inputs! When you don't have to do anything but put cattle on grass and collect them a few months later, that is highly appealing to many people in the business, but that process does not exactly produce the steak I posted above.

This method of finishing out steers is in stark contrast to how professional feedlots in Nebraska and other areas in the midwest approach the process. There is a cattleman in my area that sells beef from a refrigerated truck, he produces the beef himself, and I'm sure a lot of hard work goes into everything. BUT, a restaurant like Peter Luger's in NY or Morton's, Smith and Wollensky, etc would be out of business if they put one of his steaks in front of a discerning customer. That's a fact.

If you are like some of the locals around me, then yes, I might have offended you, but if not, there isn't anything to get upset about, do your thing, do it well, and prosper. Not everyone wants a grass-fed steak, not everyone wants a grain finished steak. We can agree upon that. The grass-fed market is not going away, it's a real thing from a demand standpoint, but if I were a grass fed producer, I would be watching Impossible Meats VERY CLOSELY, because the "health conscious crowd is highly fickle and could switch out of "healthy meat" to "alternative meat" in a heartbeat. Not so much with the grain fed crowd that would never touch alternative meat even if they were starving.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Edit: Obviously, we were both typing at the same time. I'm sure I have said a few of the cows you posted were obese, but only the ones that had basketball briskets and blobs of fat on both sides of their tail heads - I call a spade a spade. I only comment on what I see. I have also admired many that you have posted. We all get it, TT & Ron have been to see your herd - you have told us that multiple times. I do not deny that you probably have a beautiful herd. End Edit.

I didn't bother to watch the video - but, my Simmental qualify and get sold as Certified Angus Beef. What makes you think Angus is the ONLY thing on this earth that can make a Tomahawk Ribeye Steak????
Like I and others are trying to say - you go over board on your promotion. Angus is not everything. And this forum is not here to have someone try to shove it down our throats all the time. As mentioned, we can appreciate your enthusiasm for your cattle - I have just the same for my cattle and probably go over board some times - my bad.
Just slow your roll. You have a lot to offer this forum. Try to present it in a manner people are willing to read.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I didn't bother to watch the video - but, my Simmental qualify and get sold as Certified Angus Beef. What makes you think Angus is the ONLY thing on this earth that can make a Tomahawk Ribeye Steak????
Like I and others are trying to say - you go over board on your promotion. Angus is not everything. And this forum is not here to have someone try to shove it down our throats all the time. As mentioned, we can appreciate your enthusiasm for your cattle - I have just the same for my cattle and probably go over board some times - my bad.
Just slow your roll. You have a lot to offer this forum. Try to present it in a manner people are willing to read.

I don't think Angus is the ONLY form of beef cattle, Hereford is amazing beef as well. Should we discuss Herefords? I'm amazed at how horned Herefords look, and there are videos on Youtube that make my mouth drop when I see those bulls. I also REALLY LIKE Shorthorns. I'm a big fan of them as well.

Please answer this for me Jeanne. Why have Simmental producers worked so hard to improve carcass, whereby it comes naturally for Angus and Hereford, even Shorthorn? Simmentals are fine cattle. In fact, your cattle and Ron's are beautiful animals. Now with that out of the way, weren't Simmentals originally, from my "limited" knowledge of them, draft animals, along with Gelbveih and Limousin. From what I can tell many producers cross those animals with Angus in order to get better carcass traits, or am I wrong? Why spend decades trying to get an animal to taste like another animal? An animal that tastes that way naturally, with no work involved?

In fact, don't many producers create a Sim Ang product? Why introduce the Angus if it's not needed? Could it be meat quality, calving ease, what? I assume that people cross Simmental and Angus in order to get the muscling of Simmental and the carcass traits of Angus. Is that assumption incorrect?

Based on what you have said before, if I had a Sim Ang herd, I would be working hard to breed the Angus OUT OF THEM, not into them.

 

[Backbone Ranch]

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

Branded,

These were some bone-in ribeye steaks from a 2 year old Murray Grey x Guernsey cross steer that we raised. He never tasted grain in his life.

 

[CattleMan1920]

While I understand that there are grass fed producers who are paying attention to carcass quality, the majority are not, and they are jumping on the grass-fed craze just like a producer that has a black-hided animal calls it "Purebred Angus". The majority of grass-fed beef that I have tried has been inferior to grain finished. I am using Laura's lean beef and Whole Foods as comparisons, if you guys have something that they don't, I would love to see some photos, they are two major players grass fed.

Branded,

These were some bone-in ribeye steaks from a 2 year old Murray Grey x Guernsey cross steer that we raised. He never tasted grain in his life.

VERY NICE! Now if you could get your method introduced to Laura's or Whole Foods the future looks bright. By the way, my comments were not directed at operations that are putting forth a product like yours, which looks TOP NOTCH!

 

[Hippie Rancher]

meh, never mind.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

James - Thank you, I do take great pride in my herd with almost 50 years of breeding.
Actually, Hereford has been discounted in the feeder calf sales for years because they don't have as high a quality carcass as desired - they put on too much fat. The Horned Hereford now blended into the Polled breed has made the breed outstanding again.
Speaking of too much fat, that is the main reason SimAngus are so desired. They compliment each other tremendously. Simmental is the highest marbling continental breed and Angus is the highest marbling British breed. The Simmentals add the lean needed in the Angus to lower the Yield Grade, and also increase the muscling (lacking in the "high carcass" lines).
The Simmental breed has NOT "worked so hard to improve carcass" because the breed came here already being the best marbling "new breed". Some of the original Simmentals were used for draft, but mainly dairy & beef.
Want to talk about "working on carcass" - the Angus breed has gone over the top trying to increase marbling & chasing the carcass numbers, forgetting to LOOK at their own cattle. Which, you do a great job of trying to produce quality PHENOTYPE, and don't chase the numbers. Angus has always been the "carcass breed" and the "CE breed". Why chase the numbers now? (the breed, not you.)
I think we generally agree about most things, just have different ways of saying it.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

meh, never mind.

My kids say that all the time. What's does "meh" mean?

 

[Son of Butch]

meh = just pass the meth and don't bother me
No worries TT, they probably learned it from their mother.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

meh = just pass the meth and don't bother me

That makes no sense whatsoever.