First Time Heifers

[Joy of Texas]

Ok ,I know we try to find a bull for heifers. I have read back some on this and I was just wondering. Is it not possible,it's the time of the year they calf ? This year I have decided to breed all my first time heifers for winter calving. For one, I think that the calves would come out smaller. Last year I pulled more calves ( 6 ) than we ever had. All were spring ,summer calves. It seems to me that the heifers would not have all the grass ,causing the calf to grow to big. I know that was alot of the problem I had last year.
Just your thought, is it the bull or time of year ?

 

[dun]

Keep in mind when you pencil whip the figures that those heifers will need a lot better quality feed, growing and nursing as they will be.

 

[bigbull338]

it sounds like its a combo of things.are you feeding the heifers alot.or are they just on pasture an hay.you can grow the calf in the heifer.the bull could have a tendency to throw some big calves.

 

[MikeC]

Ok ,I know we try to find a bull for heifers. I have read back some on this and I was just wondering. Is it not possible,it's the time of the year they calf ? This year I have decided to breed all my first time heifers for winter calving. For one, I think that the calves would come out smaller. Last year I pulled more calves ( 6 ) than we ever had. All were spring ,summer calves. It seems to me that the heifers would not have all the grass ,causing the calf to grow to big. I know that was alot of the problem I had last year.
Just your thought, is it the bull or time of year ?

Spring calves are known to be heavier than Fall calves. Some suggest it's because of increased blood flow during winter months, and some suggest a higher feeding plane during Winter.

Whatever the reason, it seems to hold true.

 

[John Wayne]

To quote Dr. Scott Lake D.V.M of the Purdue School of Agriculture Research
"The only way you could influence the birth weight of a calf at birth by feeding the Dam would be to feed an extreme amount of both protein and energy"---- we were talking about the third trimester for the purpose of this discussion.
"There seems to be no research that supports the old wives tale that feed in the last trimester influences BW"
He did say you are going to take a lot of flack if you say this but it is still the truth.
Now on the other hand the grass you grow this year is not the same grass you grew last year. It can very a lot depending on inviromental factors. The link below should go to the site with about 50 research works done on BW of calfs if not just cut and paste or google 'pubmed.gov' and do a search.
It's the bull you should have hit him with a stick------------------------ I crack me up.

Dystocia in beef heifers: a review of genetic and nutritional influences.N Z Vet J. 2006 Dec;54(6):256-64. Review. Erratum in: N Z Vet J. 2007 Feb;55(1):48. PMID: 17151722 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

 

[dcara]

"The only way you could influence the birth weight of a calf at birth by feeding the Dam would be to feed an extreme amount of both protein and energy"

"There seems to be no research that supports the old wives tale that feed in the last trimester influences BW"

Those two statements seem contradictory to me, not only in whether or not there is a relationship between feed and BW in the last trimester, but also as to whether or not research has been done. Seems he is actually saying that he has an opinion that is also not supported by research?

 

[Darhawk]

Guess it's what you're trying to achieve. I don't so much look at the birth weight/complication issue as much as I do monetary. I like fall calves so that when I sell them as yearlings (hopefully heavy) the next fall I can pay my property taxes before year's end.

 

[Wewild]

What kinda heifer and what kinda bull?

 

[Wewild]

Keep in mind when you pencil whip the figures that those heifers will need a lot better quality feed, growing and nursing as they will be.

We use to do more supplement but now they get hay and grass just like the rest.

Some don't make it to the big time.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

What breed of bull did you breed those heifers to. What kind off birth weights can your heifers stand. Are they big enough maybe mature enough is abetter way to put it. I think most times a well feed heifer not to fat but in good condition will have less trouble calving. If she is old enough and big enough in good condition. Should calve no problem, unless you got big birth weight bull.

 

[grubbie]

What breed of bull did you breed those heifers to. What kind off birth weights can your heifers stand. Are they big enough maybe mature enough is abetter way to put it. I think most times a well feed heifer not to fat but in good condition will have less trouble calving. If she is old enough and big enough in good condition. Should calve no problem, unless you got big birth weight bull.

Nicely put, I agree. We calve in early spring here, heifers are good sized by then, and we use a low BW angus bull, or sometimes a Longhorn. Longhorns are a great heifer bull, takes all the worry out of it. Some folks have said that the calves are worthless, but we have always gotten very good prices out of ours. And even in the worst weather, them buggers hit the ground, jump up and start sucking. Even if they didn't sell well, you have just made a cow, and any live calf is better than a dead one. Besides, you get some really cute colored calves!

 

[3waycross]

There is the duke. I reckon he got lucky and that bull didnt kill him after all.

Probably just made him walk funny. Wait! he always walked kinda funny, come to think of it.


Sorry to hijack your post I just couldn't help it!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ok ,I know we try to find a bull for heifers. I have read back some on this and I was just wondering. Is it not possible,it's the time of the year they calf ? This year I have decided to breed all my first time heifers for winter calving. For one, I think that the calves would come out smaller. Last year I pulled more calves ( 6 ) than we ever had. All were spring ,summer calves. It seems to me that the heifers would not have all the grass ,causing the calf to grow to big. I know that was alot of the problem I had last year.
Just your thought, is it the bull or time of year ?

You can do everything right and a lot of it goes back to calving heifers is just a crap shoot.
Just look at the percentage of heifer assist to mature cow. Compare the calf and heifer loss to mature cow at calving. I will never deal with a first timer again quit some years back the losses are just to high, as well as the cost to get her into production. I have seen time and time again on heifers, people say my bull has a low BW look at the brick calves he spits out and he is not calving ease a lot of difference in the two.

Just read the board on how many times help is ask with on heifers.

 

[Joy of Texas]

Thanks,for the feedback. I know there is pros and cons. The bull I used is our beefmaster. I have no data on him. But I do know my heifers that calved in winter had no trouble. The spring summer ones did. All were the same age and about the same size. I did not feed the spring ones no extra feed . It was just coastal. So therefore,I couldn't control the amount they were eating.
I am going to try winter calving and the use the same bull. That itself should tell if it's the bull.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Thanks,for the feedback. I know there is pros and cons. The bull I used is our beefmaster. I have no data on him. But I do know my heifers that calved in winter had no trouble. The spring summer ones did. All were the same age and about the same size. I did not feed the spring ones no extra feed . It was just coastal. So therefore,I couldn't control the amount they were eating.
I am going to try winter calving and the use the same bull. That itself should tell if it's the bull.

Joy you are not having calving difficulties because they are feeding on coastal.
It boils down to you kept some heifers that had problems or there is one with the bull.
What was the ratio of bull calfs born to heifers and the assitance need for each sex calf.

 

[Joy of Texas]

Thanks,for the feedback. I know there is pros and cons. The bull I used is our beefmaster. I have no data on him. But I do know my heifers that calved in winter had no trouble. The spring summer ones did. All were the same age and about the same size. I did not feed the spring ones no extra feed . It was just coastal. So therefore,I couldn't control the amount they were eating.
I am going to try winter calving and the use the same bull. That itself should tell if it's the bull.

Joy you are not having calving difficulties because they are feeding on coastal.
It boils down to you kept some heifers that had problems or there is one with the bull.
What was the ratio of bull calfs born to heifers and the assitance need for each sex calf.

Ok thanks CB ,I'll have to do alot more thinking and go back thru some paper work. Let you know know in a few days.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Joy I haven't use a set of chains in years, I can't remember the last calf I had to assist.
I had a breech I didn't catch in time couple years ago. I got a good lesson in calving difficulties in the mid seventies with a Pallet headed Char bull on a bunch of crossbred cows weighing 800 to a 1000. I wore out a set of chains for a couple of years.
I want to buy a calving ease bull that calves get here about the size of a housecat. I can't sell a dead calf.
I have found that to many breeders have been chasing weaning weight at a high cost to CE and BW.
And they are all low birthweight calving ease bulls when you buy them.
I like to see a bulls progeny on the ground or his Sires. They can write all the numbers they want on the paper it still doesn't beat a discerning eye.

PS I am a nervous Nelly right now as I brought in a new bull last year and have a crop due in June.
That is one reason I hang on to a good bull so long when I get one. This crop will tell if he stays here or at Mc Donalds. I know the cows are good as they are all older working ladies.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

FWIT (and non-Longhorn people could probably care less...lol):

Since we've been in Longhorns for coming on 7 years and some 100 or so calves born, we have not had one problem with calving for 1st calf or adult cows giving birth, or any illness. Our calves have ranged between 45 and 65 pounds and hit the ground nursing (within 45 to 60 min.) and up and about.

We presently have 3 service bulls (and have sold 5 or 6 service age bulls). Have used probably 6 different bulls on our herd in mix & match breedings. No problems.

We do both spring and fall calving. Even calves born in nasty freezing weather have not had any problems.

Not tooting my horn...just wanted to share our experience.

 

[Wewild]

Our calves have ranged between 45 and 65 pounds and hit the ground nursing (within 45 to 60 min.) and up and about.

i would think that is a long time for that to happen.

We are batting a thousand on our calved heifers this year..... which would be considered a normal year. We got some left to go.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Our calves have ranged between 45 and 65 pounds and hit the ground nursing (within 45 to 60 min.) and up and about.

i would think that is a long time for that to happen.

We are batting a thousand on our calved heifers this year..... which would be considered a normal year. We got some left to go.

The 45-60 minute range is the absolute maximum that has happened. Nevertheless, there have been no problems.