First Experience with AI a total fail. Need a better way

[Kathie in Thorp]

If your going to be serious about AI, it would be best to use a tech, or attend a class. It's not hard at all. If you just have a few head, you could breed on observed heat, and save a little.

It's an option. I've seen it done on video and in person. I think I could pull it off. The shooting part looks easy. The storage and handling I have some questions on. Class and equipment would go about two grand not including travel and accommodation. Nitrogen service is questionable. The welding supplier in town was throwing around figures of a couple hundred a month to service a tank if I brought it to them every month. I think he was off.

Leasing a bull looks a lot easier now and more likely to succeed. But I haven't tried that yet either. I suspect there's things I don't know about that too.

If your nitrogen person is talking a couple $100/mo. to keep your tank full, he's a rapist! Our tank will hold for about 5 mos.; we re-fill it every 4 mos. Costs about $50 each time. I know there are some Lowline breeders in Spokane area because they attended a one-day AI class I went to up there a couple years ago.

 

[NWMoAngus]

I only buy 50 straws a year or so from my Genex man and he comes by and fills my semen tank periodically for no charge. I also buy my misc. AI supplies from him.

 

[bse]

You will find the 20 different answers on here, ive seen why do you want a bull with 5 cows, then you need a bull.
If you look at 2 different sync programs using just what you did they say 2 very different things (1)GnRH day one PG day 7 het detect from day 6 to day 13. (2) GnRH day one PG day 7 day 6 to day 10 heat detect and AI from 72 to 84 hrs making it timed AI sounds like you used the second. Without observing heat i think your percentage will be cut way down using that protocol.
With the Cidr you narrow down the time for the cow to respond to the PG, making timed AI a little better to do.Even with all the drugs and things you can do they will not respond.
Theres always fall calving breed them in Dec for a Sept calf.
If you can find a school id go and breed them yourself on natural heat, I think 1000 should get a school and all you need to get going.

 

[Nesikep]

Man, I hate to be the downer ITT, especially when it comes to educating newbs. But why do you only have five cows, no bull and are trying to AI? If you are willing to purchase a semen tank (Maybe I should ask. Do you have a semen tank to properly store the semen?), semen and spend the money on expensive synchronization drugs and materials, then why no cleanup bull? Nobody I know expects AI to settle 100% of the cows bred. Reminds me of an old friend who grew up on a rowcrop farm with no cows and married a city girl. The new wife wanted to have a few cows, so he bought her a couple of heifers. They decided not to purchase a bull, since they only had five acres of grass. He asked me to come over and breed their heifers. He didn't care what bull I used, semen from any calving ease Angus bull in my tank was OK with him. I explained what heat signs to look for after they gave the heifers a shot of prostaglandin. He called on the evening before he needed me, I went to their five acre operation and found he had absolutely no facilities to handle the heifers. He only had an extra gate to squeeze them up against the side of a loafing shed and a rope halter. Needless to say there was no way I was going to get the AI service done without adequate facilities.

Bottom line is, although I am happy to see new operators trying to get involved in agriculture even at marginal levels, why not try being successful operating in a conventional manner before trying to do it state of the art? There is nothing wrong with doing it the old fashioned way.

Because if I ask 20 guys how to do something I'll get 20 different, conflicting answers. I live in a semi-rural area of 10 acre lots. Most more experienced folks that I've asked say: No way do you want a bull! He'll kill you, tear down your fence, kill your neighbor, the cops will come and kill the bull and your wife will be stuck paying for all of it. Or some variation on that. On the other hand, the bulls I've met at places where we bought heifers and where we bred last year and at the shows are calm critters. But if I bring one here and he does get out, I won't be able to do anything about it and short of animal control, who work under the Sheriff here, there's nobody I could call to help. So I'm reluctant to have a bull here. I'm rethinking that now.

It's no different here, 20 people will give you 20 different answers....

I don't know if it'll work for you, but perhaps leasing or co-owning a bull would suit you well.. your calving season is a bit messed up at this point, but starting in a couple months would give you fall calving cows (better than non-calving cows), which not many people do, meaning a bull is most likely available and on holidays until next May somewhere. If he's on your place half the year, and has girls to take care of (and there are no boys OR girls on the other side of the fence), he ought to behave himself quite nicely and stay home. Meanwhile, someone else might be happy to not have to carry the bull over the winter and keep him segregated from the cows and heifers.

Kathie, you remember those breeders? perhaps they have a bull?

 

[I luv herfrds]

We tried the drugs for bringing cows into heat and also had failure.
Forget the drugs and get some heat patches and watch for them to go into heat. We have had been getting better conception by going that way.
We AI our Jersey's and so far it has been 100% for them since we do it natural.

The straws we were using were $100 a piece on our Herefords. That was a big loss.

If it is hard getting the vet or tech there definately look into learning doing AI.

You can either rent a semen tank or better to buy one. Once you buy one then you do not have to worry about paying rent on the tank or rushing to get it back.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Rogergreaves and Nesi -- No, I don't remember the names of the Lowline folks that were at that AI workshop. But here's a link to Lowline breeders in the NW. http://westernstateslowline.com/

We DO do the synch and the cidrs. We had no live bull on the place, and of 7 bred AI, we got 5 calves. Only 1 of the cows had a second round of AI (she calved). We preg-checked 6 via blood draw test at about 40 days on the first round, and one came up open (we figured she might). Two of 6 girls for test absolutely would not give up any tail blood. Of those two, one calved and one didn't. The 7th cow was in roaring/raging heat when we drew blood from the others, so we bred her then and she calved behind the others. We figured that was about 70% avg. But timing is EVERYTHING doing that.

 

[cazzhrdwd]

Roger I have 6 cows and failed the first time with AI, never again. A friend of mine lets me borrow a young bull and that's the best way for me. I too was told the horror stories of having a bull, but several cows in heat and corn, if he's calm he'll be alright. Around here it seems to be around 800 to 1200 to rent one for 5-6 months.

 

[milkmaid]

A vet I used for years while raising Holstein springers does AI... but then he specializes in bovine and equine reproduction so it's up his alley anyway.

Are you within driving distance of Washington State University in Pullman? I don't know off-hand what it'd cost to bring them to the therio department at the vet school here, but we have some incredibly good veterinarians working here who do embryo transfer etc on a regular basis - AI is simple in comparison.

 

[rogergreaves]

A vet I used for years while raising Holstein springers does AI... but then he specializes in bovine and equine reproduction so it's up his alley anyway.

Are you within driving distance of Washington State University in Pullman? I don't know off-hand what it'd cost to bring them to the therio department at the vet school here, but we have some incredibly good veterinarians working here who do embryo transfer etc on a regular basis - AI is simple in comparison.

Pullman is a hike but doable. Either the wife or I will take a class if we are going to continue AI. At this point, a bull is probably going to work better for us.

We actually know several local breeders and one in Montana. Montana is more sure-fire as they keep ~60 bulls. It's two days and a hundred gallons of diesel to pick him up and the same to take him home. The locals are smaller and a little harder to schedule with.

 

[Angus106]

I don't know why the vet would say blood testing is inaccurate. I've been using it for the last 5 years and find it to be very accurate.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Did you use cidrs in your sync protocal and are the cows lactating? I AI for a living and I can't get good conception with regular ovsync on lactating beef cows without cidrs. Beef cows won't build a cl for the lut shot to work on early in their lactation so it's possible that you wasted your time syncing them without the cidrs.

- Are dairy cows easier w/o cidrs than beef cows ?
- Are beef heifers easier than cows ?
- How good is "good conception" ?
- How much success have you seen in moving beef cows up a month ?

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

A vet I used for years while raising Holstein springers does AI... but then he specializes in bovine and equine reproduction so it's up his alley anyway.

Are you within driving distance of Washington State University in Pullman? I don't know off-hand what it'd cost to bring them to the therio department at the vet school here, but we have some incredibly good veterinarians working here who do embryo transfer etc on a regular basis - AI is simple in comparison.

Pullman is a hike but doable. Either the wife or I will take a class if we are going to continue AI. At this point, a bull is probably going to work better for us.

We actually know several local breeders and one in Montana. Montana is more sure-fire as they keep ~60 bulls. It's two days and a hundred gallons of diesel to pick him up and the same to take him home. The locals are smaller and a little harder to schedule with.

Rogergreaves, WSU puts on an AI class once a year. They've also done some one-day clinics, and I attended one, but there were no live cattle to work with -- just reproductive tracts on a table. But you might check into this one for next year: http://extension.wsu.edu/vetextensi...ID=93&Source=/vetextension/Pages/default.aspx

 

[polledbull]

the last guy to call to breed cows is the vet, sounds like you need to buy a bull and put in and atleast you will get a calf crop