Fertilizer Prices

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I have the problem Fence mentioned in my bermuda hay field. Old cotton land. Zero phos and nitrogen in the soil. Put a couple hundred lbs of each in the soil and it will still register nothing the following year. No use doing a soil test as they always read the same. Its a frustrating problem that can't really be fixed on my budget.

So you live with what you got to work with. I add some at the beginning of each year to boost production some knowing that the hay will be low in protein. Supplement accordingly. Its one reason I try to make oat hay every year as I can get its protein level up some with way less fertilizer imputs.
 
bird dog said:
I have the problem Fence mentioned in my bermuda hay field. Old cotton land. Zero phos and nitrogen in the soil. Put a couple hundred lbs of each in the soil and it will still register nothing the following year. No use doing a soil test as they always read the same. Its a frustrating problem that can't really be fixed on my budget.

So you live with what you got to work with. I add some at the beginning of each year to boost production some knowing that the hay will be low in protein. Supplement accordingly. Its one reason I try to make oat hay every year as I can get its protein level up some with way less fertilizer imputs.
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Would you be able to graze the hay field for a few seasons to not continue to pull the nutrients off, or is that not feasible? At least you could dump back some of it with manure and urine that way.
 
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Stocker Steve said:
i did the math. Soil testing good, exactly following recommendations bad.
My soil fertility is going up every year, and my yields are usually above break even, and I don't exactly follow the recommendations.
Following forage fertilizer recommendations - - which are full of assumptions and defaults - - is the equivalent of driving the posted speed on an ice-covered road.
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I didn't say following the recommendations exactly was required. What I was trying to get at is that soil tests will let you know what's lacking and what you have excesses of so your fertilizer input decisions can be more cost effective. For example, I have fields that do not require N for a good single cut of hay. There is enough organic matter to produce the required N. Without testing I probably wouldn't know that my K/Mg ratio is out of whack. Fixing isn't terribly expensive but pays dividends. Lots of variables involved other than just throwing NPK at the field. That's kinda like throwing Brand X free choice mineral out to your cattle without knowing what they are actually lacking.
I also winter feed on the hay ground, and every so often spread manure when I collect enough to make it worthwhile to us a custom guy.
 
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Hp, I plant oats and Rye grass on a another pasture every year. It gets grazed some and then hopefully baled up in late April. If this works, that provides me with almost enough hay for the year and I graze the bermuda hay field. Last year it didn't due to a dry spring so the Bermuda hay field was baled in June. It did okay producing 141 4 x 5 1/2 rolls on 50 acres. Hay has a protein level of 6%. I can buy 30% tubs and feed this hay and the cows do fine. As high as fertilizer was last year, low protein hay and tubs seemed like the way to go. My fall calving cows get thin every February regardless as their calves approach weaning time. This year will be no different. They recover quickly during the spring flush and their calves are removed.

I much prefer the oat hay and I usually get most of what I need from the 43 acre patch where it is planted. Last year was the first year in six where the field didn't produce. I may need to bale up both fields this year to build back up some reserve. When you have to have 8 or so acres per AUM, it takes a long time to get pastures back with urine and manure. I roll out my hay and this helps some, but still only covers a small percentage of my acreage a year. My hay is kept under a shed so the cows leave very little to incorporate back into the soil.
 
Dave said:
If it is an independent lab and the dealers are working off their recommendations you are good. It is when the lab just does results and the fertilizer dealer writes up the recommendations based on the lab results that it becomes questionable.
With your pH in the 5's you need lime much more than fertilizer. Getting your pH up into the upper 6's will free up a lot of nutrients which aren't even showing up in your test results.
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Thats useful info about nutrients not showing up in your test results.
My ph is 5.7 far cry from the 5.0 it was.
 
callmefence said:
I do on hayfields initially. Our soil is unique to some in that we never have a need for k or lime. Apparently a advantage to lots of limestone. P is almost always needed especially if the ground ever had cotton on it. A cotton field that's been fallow since the 50s will be completely void of nutrients still 70 years later. A soil test will invariably show 60+ pounds of phosphorus needed. Once we get it right I seem to do okay replenishing about 20 pounds per year on hay ground. I don't expect to put much this year as lack of rain last minimized grass growth. I'm thinking last year's p should still be there.We,ll know soon. Nitrogen is applied as prescribed for the crop. No soil test needed. Raining this morning or I would have just answered with Yes, but once you learn you field you can pretty much guess it.
For producing hay I've never seen fertilizer to expensive to pencil out as long as adequate rainfall is received.
30-10-0 priced last week at 750.00
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You got any chicken houses around? Your the ideal candidate for that. Levels for P getting to high is what limits it here.
 
Bird dog, had a buddy buy 22 acres adjoining him 3-4 years ago.Run down bahia and lots of broomsedge. Had been hayed for years without any nutrients returned. Convinced him to soil test. Auburn University results said he needed lime and P and K. Fertilizer was cheaper then, so he sprung for the recommended amounts. 9 months after application, he tested again. Excellent response put him in the upper medium to high range. That summer, took 2 cuttings of hay off. Didn't need the hay, just had excess pasture he didn't want to waste. Bahia had thickened and broomsedge appeared to be weakening. Took another sample 6 months later. Test was virtually identical to the first one before the fertilizer application. 2 cuttings of hay had depleted all the fertility that had spent so much to inject! His new rule is no more hay cutting on his place, he'll buy in all his hay( he only feeds about a bale/cow/year). At a producer's meeting at Auburn last spring, an economist said that, at the current price of fertilizer and the current price of hay, there was more value in the N,P,K in the hay than the cost of the hay, forgetting the nutritional value of the hay to the animals.
 
anewcomer said:
Bird dog, had a buddy buy 22 acres adjoining him 3-4 years ago.Run down bahia and lots of broomsedge. Had been hayed for years without any nutrients returned. Convinced him to soil test. Auburn University results said he needed lime and P and K. Fertilizer was cheaper then, so he sprung for the recommended amounts. 9 months after application, he tested again. Excellent response put him in the upper medium to high range. That summer, took 2 cuttings of hay off. Didn't need the hay, just had excess pasture he didn't want to waste. Bahia had thickened and broomsedge appeared to be weakening. Took another sample 6 months later. Test was virtually identical to the first one before the fertilizer application. 2 cuttings of hay had depleted all the fertility that had spent so much to inject! His new rule is no more hay cutting on his place, he'll buy in all his hay
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Dr. Allen is a smart guy, and what he sells is consulting. One of the points he makes is that the effects of the (biological) improvements he recommends last for years, unlike broadcast chemical fertilizer. This depends on the context, but I mostly agree. I think lime is an exception.
 
I see some talking about n on soil test. Is that measured in other places? Or just recommend amount for the crop? Here its not measured in soil sample it leaches and is so variable with weather soil sample just recommends for your crop
 
jltrent said:
Joe at Sneedville priced it to me for $760/ton and Joe the Coop manager will take care of you. He is a good guy. He had 15-15-15 for $650/ton and 12-24-24 for $780/ton.
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I really like ol Joe and Lisa. She's a sweety. They've treated me well from the jump when I came in asking questions that most people have too much pride to ask.
 
I have been talking with organic gardeners who do things on scale about alternative fertilize options.

They've talked fermenting organic materials, compost teas, some other stuff too. There are other options out there. Just a matter of trying something new and scaling them up. Folks are having some success in doing this.

Found a very knowledgeable young man that just moved here from AZ. Going to get him to help me treat a 25 acre hay lease we have. See how it goes.

I think we need to start looking at biological fixes/corrections though. Animals need to be put back on hay/crop ground for their impact. Feed hay back onto the hayfields. Organic matter is everything I do believe.
 

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