Jogeephus
Well-known member
Not having to be there has many advantages.
Feral Hog Device
- Thread starter Ruark
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backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Once you get the first one zapped, others will flee. Do not underestimate their intelligence. Half of them (or more) are already trap smart. These things will jump up on one another's backs and ride "piggy back" and jump 6 foot walls. Then it is hard to get them near a trap again.
I am all for eliminating them. Just don't underestimate them.
I am all for eliminating them. Just don't underestimate them.
TexasBred
Well-known member
True...doesn't bother me at all....but there's always some sob looking to turn somebody in for what they think is cruelty.Ruark":36lo0wqt said:
Thanks for the replies. Comments:
A major difference between this approach and the standard "cage trap" is that hogs will sometimes avoid cage traps. They're also difficult for some people to manage; some people aren't sure how to handle a cage full of angry, panicked wild hogs. One option there is to stand outside the cage and shoot them one at a time. Then you have half a ton of dead hogs in a cage. Another option is to load the cage, live hogs and all, on a trailer and haul them to a processor. This, of course, is beyond the capability of the average person.
Caustic Burno: I know shooting them can be fun, but this is a serious attempt to control a hog population without using illegal poison. Using guns is fun, but as a population control or elimination method, "shooting" approaches simply aren't effective.
Remote devices and "being there." Of course, this would be nice, if you have the $$$, but I'm trying to keep cost down. Also, the cage traps with remote triggers (cameras, cell phones, etc.) are different in that you have more time to be alerted and trigger the trapdoor. With this device, the hogs will be there just long enough to clean out that tray of sour corn, and if there's a group of them, that will be less than a minute. By the time it triggers, dials your cell phone, then you pick it up and answer and send a signal, they could easily be gone.
Keep in mind: my focus here is not on just killing some hogs, but ELIMINATING them. I want that whole group of hogs eating at the trough at once. While they're there, just flip the switch, and pow, every one of them falls over dead, nice and neat. The purpose is not to create some fancy, expensive hog-killing toy, but a cheap, effective feral hog elimination device, since poisoning them is a LONG way down the road.
Backhoeboogie: from what I can tell, there wouldn't be any "first one to get zapped," because they'd all get zapped at once.
What I'm really looking for is some input on the electrical configuration, especially as it pertains to multiple hogs. Really, everything depends on that. Batteries? Transformers? Inverters? If it can't produce enough voltage/current to do the job, it won't work. I know AC current is much more effective for electrocution, so an inverter would be required to produce AC. 12V DC (a car battery) is almost impossible to kill anything with, so a transformer would be in order as well, as it's generally assumed that at least 60V is needed for electrocution to occur.
Regarding transformers - as voltage increases, current decreases. As voltage doubles, current halves. If a battery produces 800 amps at 12V, it produces 400 amps at 24V, 200 amps at 48V, 100 amps at 96V, 50 amps at 192V, 25 amps at 384V, and so on.
Another factor is the duration of the electrical charge. Would the hog "freeze" at a certain voltage/amp level, or instantly jerk back away from it? If the duration is too short, it wouldn't work. Here DC has a big advantage. Because it's a continuous current, it "holds" the muscle in a paralyzed state, whereas AC tends to "knock you back." These are the kinds of questions that come up, and I was hoping maybe I could get some answers here.
A major difference between this approach and the standard "cage trap" is that hogs will sometimes avoid cage traps. They're also difficult for some people to manage; some people aren't sure how to handle a cage full of angry, panicked wild hogs. One option there is to stand outside the cage and shoot them one at a time. Then you have half a ton of dead hogs in a cage. Another option is to load the cage, live hogs and all, on a trailer and haul them to a processor. This, of course, is beyond the capability of the average person.
Caustic Burno: I know shooting them can be fun, but this is a serious attempt to control a hog population without using illegal poison. Using guns is fun, but as a population control or elimination method, "shooting" approaches simply aren't effective.
Remote devices and "being there." Of course, this would be nice, if you have the $$$, but I'm trying to keep cost down. Also, the cage traps with remote triggers (cameras, cell phones, etc.) are different in that you have more time to be alerted and trigger the trapdoor. With this device, the hogs will be there just long enough to clean out that tray of sour corn, and if there's a group of them, that will be less than a minute. By the time it triggers, dials your cell phone, then you pick it up and answer and send a signal, they could easily be gone.
Keep in mind: my focus here is not on just killing some hogs, but ELIMINATING them. I want that whole group of hogs eating at the trough at once. While they're there, just flip the switch, and pow, every one of them falls over dead, nice and neat. The purpose is not to create some fancy, expensive hog-killing toy, but a cheap, effective feral hog elimination device, since poisoning them is a LONG way down the road.
Backhoeboogie: from what I can tell, there wouldn't be any "first one to get zapped," because they'd all get zapped at once.
What I'm really looking for is some input on the electrical configuration, especially as it pertains to multiple hogs. Really, everything depends on that. Batteries? Transformers? Inverters? If it can't produce enough voltage/current to do the job, it won't work. I know AC current is much more effective for electrocution, so an inverter would be required to produce AC. 12V DC (a car battery) is almost impossible to kill anything with, so a transformer would be in order as well, as it's generally assumed that at least 60V is needed for electrocution to occur.
Regarding transformers - as voltage increases, current decreases. As voltage doubles, current halves. If a battery produces 800 amps at 12V, it produces 400 amps at 24V, 200 amps at 48V, 100 amps at 96V, 50 amps at 192V, 25 amps at 384V, and so on.
Another factor is the duration of the electrical charge. Would the hog "freeze" at a certain voltage/amp level, or instantly jerk back away from it? If the duration is too short, it wouldn't work. Here DC has a big advantage. Because it's a continuous current, it "holds" the muscle in a paralyzed state, whereas AC tends to "knock you back." These are the kinds of questions that come up, and I was hoping maybe I could get some answers here.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I put them in check here several year's ago it was with electricity as well.
A 12,000 volt hot wire keep's them out, ever once in awhile one will bust through.
A 12,000 volt hot wire keep's them out, ever once in awhile one will bust through.
Taurus
Well-known member
My concern is that if you don't get all hogs in a single press, your screwed up and move to a new group of feral hogs. As backhoeboogie said don't underestimate them at all.
dcarp
Well-known member
I admire your desire to "eliminate" hogs, but you might as well be trying to "eliminate" cockroaches. They are prolific breeders, extremely adaptable and omnivores. I'd be happy to control the hogs here. My favorite method is the AR-15, personally very satisfying to put holes in 3 or 4 at a time. The survivors get the idea of where to go. Removing excess brush reduces much of their cover. Weed & grub control also removes some of their diet. Sure, none of that is cheap or easy but together it all works for me.
Good luck with old Sparky though, I'm all in favor of any method that kills hogs. :tiphat:
Good luck with old Sparky though, I'm all in favor of any method that kills hogs. :tiphat:
Dave
Well-known member
How about say a half an acre fenced with two strand electric wired to straight 110 or even 220. Bait the inside of the fence and leave the power off. Put in a motion detecter and a video camera to the house. Once you have enough hogs inside the fence turn on the power. They got to leave sometime. And if they don't you just go out there well armed and finish off any survivors.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Dave":1kf5znx1 said:
I agree. If you give them food and water and a large enough pen where they do not get upset you can dust the whole group. You can install a one way door or two and you will catch the bunch. Setting single traps that only catch one or three has very little effect on population control.
I've posted pics of my big traps. You can catch the herd working your place for the moment. Its just a matter of time before the next herd moves in. They travel so far and it only takes one property with no pressure on it to supple every one in a several mile radius. I've pretty much just gone to fencing them out.
I don't know about a hog being able to smell electricity or not but almost 40 years ago when I had hogs. I had a big old sow that would get out every time the electric fence went off. I don't know if she tested the fence, could hear the fencer or what.
I do remember she didn't like getting shocked, so I don't think she touched it.
I do remember she didn't like getting shocked, so I don't think she touched it.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Pigs are smart animals and learn very fast.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
There was a picture at the feed store in Glen Rose. 163 hogs could be made out. There were more lurkers I am sure. A group like that move across and you have a mess. 43 trapped in one week is my record.
They have outsmarted me a time or two.
Each one you get rid of is deserving of my appreciation. Good luck.
They have outsmarted me a time or two.
Each one you get rid of is deserving of my appreciation. Good luck.
backhoeboogie":2ahp7r2f said:
Wow. Glen Rose isn't far from me.
I appreciate all the feedback, although it didn't really answer the electrical questions I had in the first place. My original objective was to create a simple, cheap way to kill large numbers of hogs, and I thought maybe this would be it. Just a trough of sour corn, a couple of batteries and some wire. The hogs walk up, start eating at the trough, you connect the circuit, and pow, all the hogs fall over dead. No traps, no shooting, just a bunch of dead hogs. But I just don't know about the electrical current/voltage required, especially regarding the question of multiple hogs. Another problem is that I PERSONALLY don't have any hogs on my property (knock, knock), although this part of the country, as in the quoted example, is overrun with them.
Even as such, I'd love to discuss this approach further, or any other ideas or thoughts about dealing with this scourge.
Taurus
Well-known member
I doubt that your method will get all hogs in a single press on the button. There will be always some survivors as I said this before, don't underestimate them.
Great post. Here's my take as an licensed master electrician.
As a point of reference, its takes about 800ma (0.8 amps) at 120 volts and 60hz across the heat muscle of a human to cause Ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest. Typically it takes considerable more potential than that to lethally circuit a person as the epidermis has a significant amount of resistance when dry. All three components of the electrical shock (amperage, voltage and hz) will have a bearing on its leathality. AC current is really what you would be after for your puposes. Getting a suffecint amount of that kind of sustained current to your trap location is a bit of a challenge apart from having utility power available. A remote power source like a battery and inverter could probably be assembled on a trailer and connected to the trap via long cord so you could conceal the power source.
As for the trap, here is what I would aim for. Keep in mind that recent studys have found that in order to control or make a dent in local hog populations you have to get the older breeding hogs, which is where I think your idea has real merrit. They are the most savy and wary of the population and hardest to catch with the live pen type traps.
So my prototype would entail remote monitoring like a simple security camera but would have to have night vision capability. This would be tied to something as simple as your cell phone for monitoring/triggering. This hardware has actually gotten much cheaper in recent years.
My trap would consist of a supple wire mesh mat (think 40'X40' chain link fence fabric but with smaller openings ) that would be laid on the ground with the mesh openings about the size of a kernel of corn. The mat is then baited with corn or grain spread out over the mat. Envision the hogs standing on a conductor with all four feet and probably their snout pressed against it trying to root that grain out of the mesh. The mesh is thin and contours with the ground with some of the earthy material protruding through giving a natural feel.
Now the other half of the trap would be a free standing camo colored pvc tubing structure that is supported by widely spaced pvc pipe legs giving a open sided structure. The top of this big pvc "table" is comprised of criss crossing pipes forming the top or canopy. The height would be 5 feet off the ground and would be a light weight snap together arrangement. Hanging from the top of the pipe canopy would be light strands of conductive material (think strips of electric fence tape, but camo colored) about 4 1/2 feet long that would mimic a leafy type over story.
So the hogs enter the trap from any direction (no doors or passages, just a few widely spaced vertical pipe stands) wander around feeding freely, soon other more wary animals walk on the mat all the while your viewing from your smart phone or PC because you got a automated text message (trap activity!) from the game camera and when it looks like the hogs are all there you trigger the circuit remotely. The charge is then connected to the over story "grid" and because the hogs cant stand under that over story grid without being in contact with a strand they are instantly "circuited" because each side of the trap, that is the over story and the ground grid are connected to your lethal power supply at your command. If you use a sufficient circuit (IE 5 amps @ 500 volts AC 60hz) it will "freeze" the hogs where they stand. 100% kill rate :cowboy:
As a point of reference, its takes about 800ma (0.8 amps) at 120 volts and 60hz across the heat muscle of a human to cause Ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest. Typically it takes considerable more potential than that to lethally circuit a person as the epidermis has a significant amount of resistance when dry. All three components of the electrical shock (amperage, voltage and hz) will have a bearing on its leathality. AC current is really what you would be after for your puposes. Getting a suffecint amount of that kind of sustained current to your trap location is a bit of a challenge apart from having utility power available. A remote power source like a battery and inverter could probably be assembled on a trailer and connected to the trap via long cord so you could conceal the power source.
As for the trap, here is what I would aim for. Keep in mind that recent studys have found that in order to control or make a dent in local hog populations you have to get the older breeding hogs, which is where I think your idea has real merrit. They are the most savy and wary of the population and hardest to catch with the live pen type traps.
So my prototype would entail remote monitoring like a simple security camera but would have to have night vision capability. This would be tied to something as simple as your cell phone for monitoring/triggering. This hardware has actually gotten much cheaper in recent years.
My trap would consist of a supple wire mesh mat (think 40'X40' chain link fence fabric but with smaller openings ) that would be laid on the ground with the mesh openings about the size of a kernel of corn. The mat is then baited with corn or grain spread out over the mat. Envision the hogs standing on a conductor with all four feet and probably their snout pressed against it trying to root that grain out of the mesh. The mesh is thin and contours with the ground with some of the earthy material protruding through giving a natural feel.
Now the other half of the trap would be a free standing camo colored pvc tubing structure that is supported by widely spaced pvc pipe legs giving a open sided structure. The top of this big pvc "table" is comprised of criss crossing pipes forming the top or canopy. The height would be 5 feet off the ground and would be a light weight snap together arrangement. Hanging from the top of the pipe canopy would be light strands of conductive material (think strips of electric fence tape, but camo colored) about 4 1/2 feet long that would mimic a leafy type over story.
So the hogs enter the trap from any direction (no doors or passages, just a few widely spaced vertical pipe stands) wander around feeding freely, soon other more wary animals walk on the mat all the while your viewing from your smart phone or PC because you got a automated text message (trap activity!) from the game camera and when it looks like the hogs are all there you trigger the circuit remotely. The charge is then connected to the over story "grid" and because the hogs cant stand under that over story grid without being in contact with a strand they are instantly "circuited" because each side of the trap, that is the over story and the ground grid are connected to your lethal power supply at your command. If you use a sufficient circuit (IE 5 amps @ 500 volts AC 60hz) it will "freeze" the hogs where they stand. 100% kill rate :cowboy:
