fence tips and tricks

[wbvs58]

Fence Tip #920

Fencing in the rain and mud is not fun. But a good pair of muck boots and carhartt rain gear make it bearable. :cboy:

Chain strainers also work excellent for tensioning brace wire.

Yuk, I would have given it away long ago.

Ken

 

[ddd75]

Looks like it'll last a while :lol2:

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

Fence Tip #920

Fencing in the rain and mud is not fun. But a good pair of muck boots and carhartt rain gear make it bearable. :cboy:

Chain strainers also work excellent for tensioning brace wire.

I finally broke down and bought this rain jacket: http://www.kaiwakaclothing.co.nz/produc ... ter-jacket

I've been warm and dry ever since. Well worth the money, and the exchange rate is in our favor.

 

[callmefence]

Drive a post, and don't brace it....then stretch some fence from it. The post leans. The corners that you see popping out, are from having the strut too high, or too narrow of a brace. A good wide H brace combats the vertical lifting forces. In short, there are two problems to combat here..... The first one, the lean, is resolved by setting longer posts deeper in the ground. It's a simple lever and fulcrum equation.
FWIW, I do dozens of fencing demonstrations a year, and my only rule is the host isn't allowed to build the braces. 100% of the time, they break my rule, and 100% of the time I have to waste half a day rebuilding braces after I pull them out of the ground trying to stretch wire. All of that said, it usually doesn't matter, because 95% of fence is never properly tensioned to begin with. Funny thing is, I'm driving the backroads of Central Texas......taking pictures of failed braces. I know I'm a tick weird, but it's my hobby. lol

Problem I have with a long wood horizontal brace is over time the horizontal will often warp into a sag causing the brace to fail. A pipe horizontal on wood post eliminates that issue. Another thing that deals even better with vertical lift is a rigid diagonal brace to a dead man. Your directing all pull to the ground, and adding another post to the equation as well. Where a wire brace on a H actually does cause lift on the terminal post.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

Drive a post, and don't brace it....then stretch some fence from it. The post leans. The corners that you see popping out, are from having the strut too high, or too narrow of a brace. A good wide H brace combats the vertical lifting forces. In short, there are two problems to combat here..... The first one, the lean, is resolved by setting longer posts deeper in the ground. It's a simple lever and fulcrum equation.
FWIW, I do dozens of fencing demonstrations a year, and my only rule is the host isn't allowed to build the braces. 100% of the time, they break my rule, and 100% of the time I have to waste half a day rebuilding braces after I pull them out of the ground trying to stretch wire. All of that said, it usually doesn't matter, because 95% of fence is never properly tensioned to begin with. Funny thing is, I'm driving the backroads of Central Texas......taking pictures of failed braces. I know I'm a tick weird, but it's my hobby. lol

Problem I have with a long wood horizontal brace is over time the horizontal will often warp into a sag causing the brace to fail. A pipe horizontal on wood post eliminates that issue. Another thing that deals even better with vertical lift is a rigid diagonal brace to a dead man. Your directing all pull to the ground, and adding another post to the equation as well. Where a wire brace on a H actually does cause lift on the terminal post.

I'll bite. A good 5" southern yellow pine post won't sag, and the forces exerted by the fence wire are what provides the vertical lift. The brace wire is what combats that. A diagonal to a deadman works great, so long as the dirt/rock/concrete at the bottom of the strainer doesn't allow the base of the post to move out. That said, it's easy enough to find places where either method would be inferior, as well as finding places where each is superior. Stay tuned, because the best of both worlds is coming soon. I met with the biggest pipe mill around last Thursday, and we are working on a high tensile galvanized post.....with the option of brown powder coat for the ones that can't get past the industrial look of galvanized.....for a complete fence package that will actually last a lifetime. :nod:

 

[callmefence]

Drive a post, and don't brace it....then stretch some fence from it. The post leans. The corners that you see popping out, are from having the strut too high, or too narrow of a brace. A good wide H brace combats the vertical lifting forces. In short, there are two problems to combat here..... The first one, the lean, is resolved by setting longer posts deeper in the ground. It's a simple lever and fulcrum equation.
FWIW, I do dozens of fencing demonstrations a year, and my only rule is the host isn't allowed to build the braces. 100% of the time, they break my rule, and 100% of the time I have to waste half a day rebuilding braces after I pull them out of the ground trying to stretch wire. All of that said, it usually doesn't matter, because 95% of fence is never properly tensioned to begin with. Funny thing is, I'm driving the backroads of Central Texas......taking pictures of failed braces. I know I'm a tick weird, but it's my hobby. lol

Problem I have with a long wood horizontal brace is over time the horizontal will often warp into a sag causing the brace to fail. A pipe horizontal on wood post eliminates that issue. Another thing that deals even better with vertical lift is a rigid diagonal brace to a dead man. Your directing all pull to the ground, and adding another post to the equation as well. Where a wire brace on a H actually does cause lift on the terminal post.

I'll bite. A good 5" southern yellow pine post won't sag, and the forces exerted by the fence wire are what provides the vertical lift. The brace wire is what combats that. A diagonal to a deadman works great, so long as the dirt/rock/concrete at the bottom of the strainer doesn't allow the base of the post to move out. That said, it's easy enough to find places where either method would be inferior, as well as finding places where each is superior. Stay tuned, because the best of both worlds is coming soon. I met with the biggest pipe mill around last Thursday, and we are working on a high tensile galvanized post.....with the option of brown powder coat for the ones that can't get past the industrial look of galvanized.....for a complete fence package that will actually last a lifetime. :nod:

Maybe on the pine..idk. I know the pipe won't warp. Agree 100percent on different areas different methods.
A wire wrapped around the bottom of the terminal and two thirds up the second H is putting up pressure on the terminal. And as the H leaned it becomes progressively worse.

I stop agreeing on the diagonal brace. You think a wire is superior to a solid diagonal???

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

Problem I have with a long wood horizontal brace is over time the horizontal will often warp into a sag causing the brace to fail. A pipe horizontal on wood post eliminates that issue. Another thing that deals even better with vertical lift is a rigid diagonal brace to a dead man. Your directing all pull to the ground, and adding another post to the equation as well. Where a wire brace on a H actually does cause lift on the terminal post.

I'll bite. A good 5" southern yellow pine post won't sag, and the forces exerted by the fence wire are what provides the vertical lift. The brace wire is what combats that. A diagonal to a deadman works great, so long as the dirt/rock/concrete at the bottom of the strainer doesn't allow the base of the post to move out. That said, it's easy enough to find places where either method would be inferior, as well as finding places where each is superior. Stay tuned, because the best of both worlds is coming soon. I met with the biggest pipe mill around last Thursday, and we are working on a high tensile galvanized post.....with the option of brown powder coat for the ones that can't get past the industrial look of galvanized.....for a complete fence package that will actually last a lifetime. :nod:

Maybe on the pine..idk. I know the pipe won't warp. Agree 100percent on different areas different methods.
A wire wrapped around the bottom of the terminal and two thirds up the second H is putting up pressure on the terminal. And as the H leaned it becomes progressively worse.

I stop agreeing on the diagonal brace. You think a wire is superior to a solid diagonal???

It depends on what the solid diagonal is attached to. A floating brace isn't all that uncommon round the world, and it has both.

 

[callmefence]

I'll bite. A good 5" southern yellow pine post won't sag, and the forces exerted by the fence wire are what provides the vertical lift. The brace wire is what combats that. A diagonal to a deadman works great, so long as the dirt/rock/concrete at the bottom of the strainer doesn't allow the base of the post to move out. That said, it's easy enough to find places where either method would be inferior, as well as finding places where each is superior. Stay tuned, because the best of both worlds is coming soon. I met with the biggest pipe mill around last Thursday, and we are working on a high tensile galvanized post.....with the option of brown powder coat for the ones that can't get past the industrial look of galvanized.....for a complete fence package that will actually last a lifetime. :nod:

Maybe on the pine..idk. I know the pipe won't warp. Agree 100percent on different areas different methods.
A wire wrapped around the bottom of the terminal and two thirds up the second H is putting up pressure on the terminal. And as the H leaned it becomes progressively worse.

I stop agreeing on the diagonal brace. You think a wire is superior to a solid diagonal???

It depends on what the solid diagonal is attached to. A floating brace isn't all that uncommon round the world, and it has both.

You know a floating brace has no place in this conversation.....a very obvious spin...

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

Maybe on the pine..idk. I know the pipe won't warp. Agree 100percent on different areas different methods.
A wire wrapped around the bottom of the terminal and two thirds up the second H is putting up pressure on the terminal. And as the H leaned it becomes progressively worse.

I stop agreeing on the diagonal brace. You think a wire is superior to a solid diagonal???

It depends on what the solid diagonal is attached to. A floating brace isn't all that uncommon round the world, and it has both.

You know a floating brace has no place in this conversation.....a very obvious spin...

IMO, a floating brace has no place in any conversation....unless I'm leaning on the outboard while I get rid of a beer.

 

[fasttommy]

Farm, just wondering your thoughts on the floating brace...obviously you are not a fan but I'm interested to know the reasons. Thanks.

 

[greybeard]

So if you have a 6 inch post four foot deep. A 12 inch post 2 foot deep would be as structural sound??

Of course not..an unrealistic comparison.

No, there is a limit before the post will heave the earth up. As I said, no one is talking about a corner 2' deep in this part of the world.
Dig a hole with a pair of ph diggers or an auger. Reach down as far as you can in the hole and force your index finger into the sidewall.
Now make a fist and with the same physical effort, try to push your fist into the sidewall.
Which one penetrated more?
The answer will be the one with the least amount of sq inches presented to penetration. The index finger.

That sounds scientific enough. Do you have some post hole digger's I can borrow??

How is my comparison unrealistic...??

Because no one plants a 12" post 2' deep as a corner...but you already knew that.
Drive 2 posts in the ground, both 5 ft deep. Both are round or both square--doesn't matter as long as both are the same shape. One post is 4" diameter, the other is 8" diameter. Do them both the same in all aspects. Hook a tractor to each one separately with a chain or cable, each same distance from the top and start pulling.
Which one leans 1st?
You know the answer to this already and you know why as well.

I actually have a set of ornamental PHDs that are normally hanging on the living room wall.
If I ever get up that way, I'll make a present of them to you. They weigh about 8oz.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Of course not..an unrealistic comparison.

No, there is a limit before the post will heave the earth up. As I said, no one is talking about a corner 2' deep in this part of the world.
Dig a hole with a pair of ph diggers or an auger. Reach down as far as you can in the hole and force your index finger into the sidewall.
Now make a fist and with the same physical effort, try to push your fist into the sidewall.
Which one penetrated more?
The answer will be the one with the least amount of sq inches presented to penetration. The index finger.

That sounds scientific enough. Do you have some post hole digger's I can borrow??

How is my comparison unrealistic...??

Because no one plants a 12" post 2' deep as a corner...but you already knew that.
Drive 2 posts in the ground, both 5 ft deep. Both are round or both square--doesn't matter as long as both are the same shape. One post is 4" diameter, the other is 8" diameter. Do them both the same in all aspects. Hook a tractor to each one separately with a chain or cable, each same distance from the top and start pulling.
Which one leans 1st?
You know the answer to this already and you know why as well.

I actually have a set of ornamental PHDs that are normally hanging on the living room wall.
If I ever get up that way, I'll make a present of them to you. They weigh about 8oz.

They'd make good chop sticks for a fenceman.

 

[Farm Fence Solutions]

Farm, just wondering your thoughts on the floating brace...obviously you are not a fan but I'm interested to know the reasons. Thanks.

They work better than I give them credit for. I see no reason to use them when an angled strut or box brace is an option, but they do serve a purpose when getting post depth is a problem.

 

[callmefence]

Of course not..an unrealistic comparison.

No, there is a limit before the post will heave the earth up. As I said, no one is talking about a corner 2' deep in this part of the world.
Dig a hole with a pair of ph diggers or an auger. Reach down as far as you can in the hole and force your index finger into the sidewall.
Now make a fist and with the same physical effort, try to push your fist into the sidewall.
Which one penetrated more?
The answer will be the one with the least amount of sq inches presented to penetration. The index finger.

That sounds scientific enough. Do you have some post hole digger's I can borrow??

How is my comparison unrealistic...??

Because no one plants a 12" post 2' deep as a corner...but you already knew that.
Drive 2 posts in the ground, both 5 ft deep. Both are round or both square--doesn't matter as long as both are the same shape. One post is 4" diameter, the other is 8" diameter. Do them both the same in all aspects. Hook a tractor to each one separately with a chain or cable, each same distance from the top and start pulling.
Which one leans 1st?
You know the answer to this already and you know why as well.

I actually have a set of ornamental PHDs that are normally hanging on the living room wall.
If I ever get up that way, I'll make a present of them to you. They weigh about 8oz

Sure I'll agreed with that. Except the part about folks not setting corners 2 foot deep. I pull em up all the time.
Also if I drive mine and you dig and damp I bet it will be a close race. Either way. It's not the point I disagreed with.
Or really the one you tried to make.
Let's go back.

Large diameter corner posts are, in most cases, just a gimmick to make a fence look more substantial. I would rather brace a fence off of a 2-7/8" pipe post that was 10 or 12' long, as to use a 10" diameter post that was only 8' long. It's the part you can't see in pictures that does the work.[/quote]


It's the part that has more sq inch exposure to hole sidewall that does the work--either by going deeper with smaller diameter posts, using an extra brace/deadman, or.... using a larger diameter post, that doesn't need to be as deep to provide as much resistance to movement because the larger diameter means the same amt of total sq inches of sidewall exposure as the smaller post drilled or driven to a greater depth.
Contractors are apt to say their corners hold up well because of greater depth but what the neglect to say is they HAVE to go to greater depth because they are using smaller diameter posts.[/quote]

Here is your original post. I responded by saying bs depth Trump's width. To give up depth because your using a bigger post would be a sorry way to do things. Do as you please...no skin off my nose.
I stand by my statement.

 

[callmefence]

I like the little digger's though.
Farm left here with some good heavy digger's. A six pack says he gotta blister. :hat:

 

[callmefence]

A long cold Sunday. Should get the pull done in the morning.


https://youtu.be/8rpHuj3tkJM

 

[callmefence]

Pardon the new guy who keeps walking up in the bite while the trucks pulling. Hes just trying to do good.
Anyways approximately 1700' in one pull.

https://youtu.be/HUGCE5wADlQ

 

[True Grit Farms]

Pardon the new guy who keeps walking up in the bite while the trucks pulling. Hes just trying to do good.
Anyways approximately 1700' in one pull.

https://youtu.be/HUGCE5wADlQ

I noticed when you rolled the wire out you had ran it off the outside and now when you pulled it you ran it off the outside, why? And why wasn't the truck in low range?

 

[callmefence]

Pardon the new guy who keeps walking up in the bite while the trucks pulling. Hes just trying to do good.
Anyways approximately 1700' in one pull.

https://youtu.be/HUGCE5wADlQ

I noticed when you rolled the wire out you had ran it off the outside and now when you pulled it you ran it off the outside, why? And why wasn't the truck in low range?

The roller holds two rolls. One is gonna be on the outside. There was filming problems rolling the first one on the roller. Truck was in 4 wheel low. You can see the front tired spin. Grass was wet. But it got tight. Usually I just try to use that bow in the pipe as a tension guage.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Gotcha I heard the transmission make a slipping sound mine does that sometimes under a heavy load in reverse.