Feeding cows

[backhoeboogie]

Backhoe - are you going to trap the feral hogs and relocate them to a safe enviroment ?

Yep. There are nine in a pen. They all safe from dogs and coyotes. - everything but my smoker. They'll get wormed, fed, castrated (if need be).

 

[J]

Backhoe - are you going to trap the feral hogs and relocate them to a safe enviroment ?

Yep. There are nine in a pen. They all safe from dogs and coyotes. - everything but my smoker. They'll get wormed, fed, castrated (if need be).

How big are they? And are you gonna sell tickets to the castrating event?

I remember cutting hogs back in ag, and they were show pigs, man that was a show in itself. I'd like to watch it done to a feral hog. :cboy:

 

[sackshowcattle]

Around here corn can be had for $3 a hundred from the farms. I can sell hay for $140 a ton to the grinder and buy the corn back for $60 a ton and gain better since it is a higher energy feed. Now if I can sell half my hay replace it with corn plus put half that money in the bank I'm making money off the crop and the cattle not just the cattle.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Backhoe - are you going to trap the feral hogs and relocate them to a safe enviroment ?

Yep. There are nine in a pen. They all safe from dogs and coyotes. - everything but my smoker. They'll get wormed, fed, castrated (if need be).

How big are they? And are you gonna sell tickets to the castrating event?

I remember cutting hogs back in ag, and they were show pigs, man that was a show in itself. I'd like to watch it done to a feral hog. :cboy:

I pen them. Ole Jake uses the knife. It is indeed a circus. I could tell some tales. But these are little guys this time. Biggest one I will pin down is around 100 lbs. You can pull the others into a panel and do the deed.

If you can't find your wife during this event, look for the nearest tractor. She'll be all the way up in the cab with the windows shut.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Backhoe - are you going to trap the feral hogs and relocate them to a safe enviroment ?

Yep. There are nine in a pen. They all safe from dogs and coyotes. - everything but my smoker. They'll get wormed, fed, castrated (if need be).

How big are they? And are you gonna sell tickets to the castrating event?

I remember cutting hogs back in ag, and they were show pigs, man that was a show in itself. I'd like to watch it done to a feral hog. :cboy:

I pen them. Ole Jake uses the knife. It is indeed a circus. I could tell some tales. But these are little guys this time. Biggest one I will pin down is around 100 lbs. You can pull the others into a panel and do the deed.

If you can't find your wife during this event, look for the nearest tractor. She'll be all the way up in the cab with the windows shut.

I told you how to get rid of them hogs, you can not kill enough to make them go away.
Now I am going to tell you how to cut them hogs , first make a stout steel frame weld goat panel to the frame, place a large hook on top of the trap. Now when you get a trap full go down there with the tractor and front end loader and pick up the trap, hog's legs go trough the panel and they are immobilized now cut away.

 

[Dave]

Another point is the amount of the nutrients in the grain, or hay for that matter, pass through the cow. So with any imported feed you are importing nutrients that go on to your ground in the form of manure. These nutrients will decrease the amount of fertilizer that you need to buy. I know of cattlemen who buy all their hay and buy no fertilizer. But again you have to be in the right part of the country where the price of hay is right.

Dave

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

CB, have the feral hogs been doing any damage to your new millet or haygrazer plots?

 

[Caustic Burno]

CB, have the feral hogs been doing any damage to your new millet or haygrazer plots?

Nope not yet I have this bunch's mind right, might be a new herd come through tonight and I will have to educate them.

 

[Bama]

In my area the only time I give grain is a little in dead of winter at times. The only other exception is 200 pound calves that have no mother on the place. I buy some of these from the salebarn and will creep them from 200 - 300 pounds. I have put a pencil to it several ways. These are the only time's it pays me to feed grain. Calves on mothers get no rain. Mommas get no grain. If momma can't raise a calf on grass shes getting into my profit. One of the biggest things that get me are people feeding grain and having to mow pastures because the grass is to high. I clip the top off of grass from time to time but mowing it is wasteing a lot of profit. If you have to mow the grass you ain't got enough cows. I ain't saw much of that in this drought but it does happen. I'm working on cutting out most of my hay feeding. I'm starting to stockpile some fescue and rye and see how much hay I can cut out. I know this ain't practical everwhere. In my little corner of the world I think this can add more dollars in my black side of the report and get further away from the dreaded red lines. Cattle are nothing more than a processor. You have input dollars and finally output dollars. How low you can keep those input dollars effects the output dollars. How well the cattle process those dollars also makes a differance in red or black ink.

 

[somn]

The fact of the matter remains that cattle are grass/forage eaters and that's what they're meant to survive on. Humans have toyed with the genetics in a way that has created animals that require feed from a sack to grow/maintain their body condition. We are also the ones who created the artificial feedlot situation.
That's not to say that limited grain is not a viable option when forage is in short supply, but I don't believe it's a profitable way to run cattle (especially a cow/calf operation) for any prolonged length of time. JMO

Corn is a member of the grass family it just happens we feed the seed of the plant.

 

[KMacGinley]

I think that most people would agree that feeding corn to growing calves is fine. After all, right now corn is cheap.

Feeding corn to cows is a recipe for disaster.

I posted on here about the cow calf pair I sold to the novices last year, well I promised them that I would take them back to breed them this summer. The cow is now the single fattest animal I have ever seen. She has a watermelon for a brisket and No visible tailhead. BCs 1000. I asked them if they had been feeding some grain. Just for treats they said.

Will she breed? I doubt it.

Bag feed costs .12 per lb. Bagged corn is .10 per lbs.

Shelled corn from the elevator is .15 over market in your gravity wagon. That is around .06 per lb. Grinding adds a little to the cost if you want to do that. Might be worth getting a used gravity wagon at a farm sale. Might approach a grain farming neighbor with a feed grinder and ask if he will sell you some corn and grind it for you for even less money.

Well managed grass with clover in a pasture rotation is probably the cheapest way to go. Frost seed the clover, if you don't have any and make sure that your pH is approaching nuetral. No N needed.
Our cows are on Cells for 3 days and then they go to the next cell. There are 10 cells. Each cell rests for 30 days. Even in last years drought, we didn't feed anything.

Corn to developing heifers in the form of creep feed or too much after weaning. (More than 3 lbs.) Will cut down on your future milk production.

So, I guess it depends on where you live, and what you have available. Corn is cheap, depending on whether it comes from a sack or out of a bin. Which I think was CB's point.

Our cows do get some grain on the ear when they hit the harvested corn fields in the fall. Not as much when it was run by a late model JD combine though.

 

[KMacGinley]

There is a very distinct difference between a feedlot operation and a cow calf operation. You seem to think feeding grain to cattle is a loser everytime and I believe the opposite. You believe grass is the only way to feed cattle and I believe the opposite. My guess is you have never operated a feedlot in southern MN. Just as I have never run a cow calf operation in East Texas. You feed your cows grass and I will feed my cattle grain. It actually has less to do about preference than it is about the region of country each of us are in.

Yes there is you recieve government subsidies to grow corn as you have stated. The government(taxpayer) doesn't pay my feed bill.

It is a good thing you had the trump card Caustic the good old subsidy line. No argument can be made by you without you using it. I wish you could stop using it as an excuse for everything. Caustic you are subsidized just like everyone else that has ever claimed an ag exemption for anything. The little bit I'm subsidized for corn will never make or break my feedlot operation. The government can pay your feed bill the same way it does mine you can start buying cheap corn just like I do. I buy 95% of my corn for the feedlot why do I do that because it is cheaper than producing it. You are so narrow minded you can only think as far as you can see. What works in East Texas will never work in southern MN it is simple as that. If I where to use your grass fed operation here in Southern MN I would be bankrupt within a year. It all depends on the region you are operating your business in.

You might want to check out Stockman grassfarmer, one of the biggest Grass fed cattle operations in the US is located in Southern Minnesota.

 

[cypressfarms]

Ps. Cypress you seem to have a good job talking for CB it was the same point I got from his comment. Maybe you can fill in for him on while he is out cutting hay ;-)

Nope, I could never fill the hip boots needed for the sh..
Uh I mean I could never fill his boots ;-)

 

[Texan]

To quote a Cattleman Craig ''if the cow I own can't raise and grow off a calf and maintain weight on my grass or hay, I am changing the cow not the grass"

Wonder what old Craig would think about you planting that millet, CB? When you should have just changed cows? :lol:

Unfortunately, weather conditions sometimes dictate that good managers supplement cows. Do what works out cheapest for you.

 

[Beefmaker]

It seems as though this argument of feeding grain or not comes back again and again. It seems to me the only sensible answer is to look at all available feedstuffs and choose the ration that is the most economical. This answer will be different in different areas of the country. In my part of the world---Iowa---corn is usually the lowest cost feedstuff. Cheaper than hay, cheaper than molasses, CHEAPER THAN PASTURE!!!! The cheapest way to feed cattle is to use as much corn as is feasible. In grain-short areas this would absolutely not be true. Lets try to be a little open-minded.

 

[3MR]

I see guy's stock heavier when the grass is good but they are paying more for the cattle because of it. every one hanging on too their cattle. then a drought hits are the prices fall then they start either dispersing or cutting back losing their head not thinking and their ass. the folks that survive in the business are the one that know their limitations and stay within that area

• If you got grass and you arent using it you are throwing away a commodity which translates into money

. Think of yourself as a grassfarmer, cattle is just how you get paid. Stockers are a profitable way to turn that grass into cash.

People run into problems when they forget to sell those extra cows or hold on to them until the last possible moment. You have to adjust your stocking and retention rate by what you can support at the time you have to support it, thats what culling is all about. Its not a bad word, its good business. You cull when you need to and stock when you can. Its a continous cycle.

heard all the grass farmer songs, but i bale all my extra grass or stockpile it for winter grazing. cant see taking on extra head of cattle that i may or maynot be able too support. now if things would work like the cattlemen needed good grass and cheap cows too add to the herd thats another story

Thats the same thing though, you are still capitalizing on what you have, being grass. Your just cutting out the middleman, being the cows. People just need to figure out which way is best for them.

 

[msscamp]

Registered breeders who consign cattle to sales, put on production sales, sell replacement bulls, or sell private treaty ALL FEED GRAIN. to survive in the seedstock business you have to have your cattle a little fatter than most.

No, they don't. Maybe we are the exception, but we do not feed our registered cows grain, they are all sold via privaty treaty unless one is culled for infertility, bad feet, etc., and we do very well on our sales. Weaning calves do receive a little grain - maybe 2 pounds each - through the winter.

 

[3MR]

Registered breeders who consign cattle to sales, put on production sales, sell replacement bulls, or sell private treaty ALL FEED GRAIN. to survive in the seedstock business you have to have your cattle a little fatter than most.

No, they don't. Maybe we are the exception, but we do not feed our registered cows grain, they are all sold via privaty treaty unless one is culled for infertility, bad feet, etc., and we do very well on our sales. Weaning calves do receive a little grain - maybe 2 pounds each - through the winter.

Yeah, anytime you use a word like "all" you have a pretty good chance of being wrong.

On another note, is it just me or does anybody else keep picturing Hoss Cartwright sitting at a keyboard typing whenever they read one of CB's post. :lol: :lol:

 

[plbcattle]

i also stated that if you took those cows to a reputable consignment sale those cattle would bring less. They are also going to be on the lower end of cattle . you will have less in them and can sell them for less. If you were to offer that same animal in an assn sale only on grass, the condition would be way to low, it would take forever or maybe not obtainable at all to get bcs 6.5-8. the carcass data is going to be lower on grass fed beef. To sell a high dollar animal all these things must be met. The to each his own. but to play with the big boys and get big boy money, you have to be an the same field, I;m not saying it;s right but there animals are going to be rollie pollie fat, if yours aren't they get deducted accordingly.

 

[msscamp]

i also stated that if you took those cows to a reputable consignment sale those cattle would bring less. They are also going to be on the lower end of cattle . you will have less in them and can sell them for less. If you were to offer that same animal in an assn sale only on grass, the condition would be way to low, it would take forever or maybe not obtainable at all to get bcs 6.5-8. the carcass data is going to be lower on grass fed beef. To sell a high dollar animal all these things must be met. The to each his own. but to play with the big boys and get big boy money, you have to be an the same field, I;m not saying it;s right but there animals are going to be rollie pollie fat, if yours aren't they get deducted accordingly.

That depends on the breed - Murray Greys are noted for their efficient feed conversion, as well as their ability to finish on grass alone, and their marbling - and we have taken cattle to association sales, although it has been many years ago, and done very well, thank you. Why would we want to take them to a consignment sale (or association sale, for that matter) when we can get what we want for them via private treaty with none of the hassles of hauling or ever having to leave home? All of our cattle are BCS 6.5 - 7 (I'm not sure why anyone would want a BCS of 8 when running pairs - too many infertility/calving problems), so that shoots down that theory as well. Perhaps you might want to spend a little more time researching your breed facts. Oh, and should you desire proof there are pictures of our cattle posted in the photo gallery - feel free to take a peek.