Farming for a living?

[SFFarms]

Im 19 years is old in college majoring in something else besides agriculture and im wondering could i make a living farming? I have been around farming and cattle my whole life, im not just one of these kids that get a fad and think i want to do something new. I really love agricultural and working with cattle, and wondering could this be my calling. I live on a small farm and raise about 30 Angus and santa gertudis beef cows on 30 acres . I know if i wanna do this for a living i would need more land and cattle. I know the basics of rasing cattle and got a pretty good start. I have recently got the angus gentic and epd bug and have pretty good cattle. But i was told by another older farmer this gentic stuff wont last and the way the economy is going beef cattle is all that will survive.

So here are some of my questions.

Can i make a living farming? If so how many acres and cattle do i need to make profit and live my life?

Is there special grants or loans i could receive?

Do i stick with gentics or go with beef cattle?

Any help would be great and other things that i didnt mention that anyone could help me with. :tiphat:

 

[SouthrnBlacks]

It depends on what kind of "Living" you would be happy with..... I am 23 and kinda gone down the same path...... only advice I can give you is finish school and try to get some type of degree no matter what field it's in...... cattle are made every day as you know and you have plenty of time to build on what u have. You may not ever even use your degree but it is nice to have the peice of paper!!! Right now I've got 40 head brangus cows ( Cow calf operation).... I use the money from the calf crop each year to pay on my 100 acres of land..... u can get a loan structured to make one annual payment like this if u like... But i maintain my day job until My land is paid for then I plan on putting more energy into the farm!!


Good luck on whatever you do.... Its encouraging to see other young people interested in AG.

 

[Brandonm22]

Genetics, EPDs, and pedigrees are just tools used to make better "beef cattle". If you produce genetics that help your seedstock buyers make money, then there will still be a demand for those genetics no matter how bearish the economy.

 

[hillrancher]

SF: What do you want for a living? If you do not have other income or help you will be 60+ year before you will have any extra for a retirement. At that age your worth will be a million+ or millions and you will not have any money in your pocket. This is sorta my experience.

 

[SFFarms]

Very good advice so far and thats what im looking for. Right now im cow/calf production selling the calves i have and putting the money back for feed and supplys fencing etc. and buying other cattle, i really think gentics is the way of the future and i wanna try to stick with that. I have a friend that owns a commerical cattle operation and runs 100+ cows and he as a good paying day job that he told me that almost helps him stay alive in the cattle business. Im gonna finish school no matter what a piece of paper is something to fall back on and if this dont work out for me.


Thanks keep the advice coming.

 

[1982vett]

Hillrancher, you got yours up first but I'm going to post mine anyway.
Going to be a bit blunt.  Unless you are born into a large ranch, sizeable fortune, or win a large lottery, about all you can hope for is to live the lifestyle.  Now that doesn't mean you can go out into this world and make a fortune elsewhere and come back to spend it on ranching.  Just look around, everyone that comes into a small fortune has a horse ranch or a cattle ranch, don't hear to many that goes into farming. :?  One of the best legitimate tax shelter and write off their is.  But I think it would be hard to find someone that recently started out one their own and make a living by ranching or farming.  Living the lifestyle is a lot easier if it is funded by outside income.  I left one way out, you might be able to marry into one.

 

[SFFarms]

Unless you are born into a large ranch, sizeable fortune, or win a large lottery, about all you can hope for is to live the lifestyle.

1982vett i think your correct on about all that. Only think so far im understanding is probally look into haveing another career and using farming as a hobby? I know there is good money in it, but the price of corn, diesel and fertlizer can only get worse. The larger the operation the more time you have to spend in it, right now im fixing fence and haulin hay out to feed cows about every other day but i love doing it.


Please keep the advise coming. :help:

 

[1982vett]

Only think so far im understanding is probally look into haveing another career and using farming as a hobby?

Hobby. Not going to get down on that word, but your post sounds like you have a higher aim than to make a hobby of it. Everyone starts somewhere. I was born into what I have, left and worked construction for 26 years and quit that job 3 years ago. Started growing into my parents setup 15 years ago when an uncle became ill. I bought 14 of his cows and his bull out of my savings. I was always close enough to help dad when he needed it and helped him bale his hay in return for baling mine. Started growing the herd. 7 years the health of another uncle failed so I rented his land and and the herd grew again. Lost mom in November of 2001 and dad in February of 2003. So the herd grows again. I work about 360 acres, half I rent and the other half I inherited. Finally quit my paycheck earning job in April 2005. Was concerned at the time how the cash was going to flow. It is nice having time to fix things that needed taking care of but without the paycheck and cost of materials to make repairs, the cash flows out faster than in. That is where the years of saving and making other investments come into play. Now after all of these years of growing the herd we are at a crossroad again. Looks like this year might be the first year where ranch expenses will be greater than ranch income.

So keep working toward your goal, save and spend your money wisely.

 

[Txwalt]

If you enjoy it give it a go while maintaining a full time job. My friends go to the lake, ride motorcycles, play golf. I work on my little ranch. Its like having your own business without the stress of losing your house. I really enjoy working for myself without the stress. Its good exercise and at the end of the day you know you've accomplished something for yourself. Its just not the same as working for someone else and getting a pat on the back. If you do this it will be a reflection on you. There is no one else to blame for any short comings except bad luck and mother nature. Have fun whatever you decide to do. :nod:

Walt

 

[ToddFarmsInc]

I ditto pretty much what was said, especially

So keep working toward your goal, save and spend your money wisely.

You need to do what you like, and you need to decide what level of comfort and standard of living is acceptable for you.

I ain't rich and famous. There are a hundred other professions I could have selected for myself that would have put more spending cash in my pocket than what I am doing now. Nearly all of my highschool classmates are Doctors, or Lawyers, or Doctors of lawyers, or Lawyers of Doctors, or politicians, (you get the picture) so I sorta feel a little tacky when I go to the highschool class reunions. (I think the next one I'm going to attend, I should wear bib overalls, and a straw hat, and drive an antique truck there... LOL)

My dad worked himeslf to death out of college. He put up 10,000 bails of hay a summer, worked part time driving feed truck, worked at a plant part time, and hated to spend money. When he bought the farm from his parrents in the 70's he had enough for a big fat down payment, and then he made payments through the 80's and had the farm all paid off by about 1989 I think. He patched up equipment with duct tape and bailing wire, and when I was old enough to help out, I kept the equipment going and ran it some of the time, and he kept expanding the operation.

I on the other hand, have not worked myself to death, and have enjoyed spending my money more than my parrents. Now, I don't have any money saved up to by any real estate. :cry2: I will inherate what I get, and from there I will make payments on what more I want. I feel bad that I wasn't able to buy the farm from my mom the way they did from my grandparrents, but times are different, and the profit margin is much tighter than what it used to be. (and that's what I am told from all the old timers around here) Seems like the only, and I mean the ONLY young ones who are getting into farming are those who are inhearting it from their parrents.

But all in all, I'm happy with where I am at, can't immagine living anywhere else, and I will always have some critters around, cause I really enjoy them. If times ever get so tight and money so scarce, I have to take a job in town, I will lease out my ground to someone else, and pack my lunch and go work for someone else. But I won't leave this farm, short of being drug off kicking and screaming. (or being carried off in a box). *now that I think about it, even though I don't have any money in the bank to speek of, I am not in debt, and if I were to sell off all my interest in the farm operation, I would have enough money to buy a rather nice house in most of the country. :kid:

I just don't know what to say to someone starting off from ground zero, I can't immagine that. I would say get a good high paying job first and do the cattle thing on the side untill you get a nice cash saftey net established, but that's just my opinion.

There is one older guy in this area, who returned from retiring from working Cargill I think, in China, for all of his adult life. He was born and raised in the area, and when he returned "home" he bought the farm, and a lot more acres to boot, and put up a million dollar house that is so beautiful I could just cry, and started a registered angus ranch. So there is two ways to go, either just hang around home and never leave, like I did, or go away become rich and famous doing something else, and then come back and do what you want to after taking an early retirement.

 

[Brandonm22]

I am not as pessimistic about this as some. Right NOW land is in demand by the baby boomers. They have reached their income peaks and are using that money too buy trophy ranches, hunting clubs, country estates, timber property, etc. A LOT of that land is not actually making that great a $$$ return (especially if you value it at $2000, 3000, 5000, or 8000 an acre). The boomers (raised by the rugged Depression hardened World War II generation) were much fitter and more outdoorsy than my age group (~30-45); though NOT nearly as hard as their parents. There are far fewer family farms NOW than when I was a boy and certainly fewer than what the Boomers remember. The generation coming up now (by comparison) are really FAT, really lazy, and very urbanized. More so than any generation that ever came before them. FAR FEWER of them grew up on farms. They don't know who John Wayne is. They never played Cowboys and Indians, they never gardened, they met their first farm animal at a zoo, few of them hunt or fish, the Boy Scouts struggle to fill their ranks. They never saw Roy Rodgers, Gunsmoke, Gene Autry, or even Clint Eastwood, their idea of camping is renting a $140,000 motor home. They don't have the same hobbies, dreams, or passions of the much more rural, more rugged boomers. They spent far more time with their play station 2s than they ever did on the back of a pony, horse......OR A TRACTOR!!! Their culture is sports on TV, exercise in a gym, Taco Bell, and first person shooters on the computer. ~Half of the farm labor NOW is Mexicans (many of them illegals)so I have doubts as to how many of them will rise up the ladder to actual owner operator. In 10-30 years, when the Boomers have to give up their ranches and their hunting clubs, WHO are the buyers going to be???? Who will my generation sell too??? The WWII generation had a lot of children and still many of them were unable to pass the farm or ranch on. The Boomers had birth control. They have less children and thus have less likelihood of rearing a future farmer to take over the ranch. $4-5 gas means that it is going to be less affordable too live on a ranch and commute 20-50 miles to a job. Right NOW, yes a good sized ranch is going to cost $2 million or more (as fast as the govt is ruining the dollar THAT is not the money that it was six months ago).......I am not convinced that it will stay that way. IF ranching/farming becomes another business instead of a lifestyle the paper value on a lot of farms and ranches is going to be much much less than what we see now.

 

[Aaron]

By my math, in our area, to etch out a income sufficient for one person, and marketing only weaned calves in the fall, I would say about 250 cows would do it. If you had a small family and wanted to send some of your kids to university and maybe take a trip every few years, and have relatively new machinery, about 500 cows. If you wanted the newest machinery available and live the life of someone in the city, I would say about 1000 cows. This is assuming you already own the landbase and machinery neccessary to carry these numbers. Otherwise, startup would include huge principle and interest fees, which I have not alloted for. Also, by the time you hit a thousand cows, you would need to have a small team of workers, which would also cut your bottom line.

I am about your age as well. With the volatility in the livestock sector nowadays and food not being as valuable as it aught to be, I would not be thinking farming alone. It sucks that we can't do it on farming alone, but agriculture is not the priority in North America compared to other areas of the world. Until the shelves are bare in the store, it won't likely happen that producers get a fair shake on this continent. :cowboy:

 

[SRBeef]

I am impressed by you SF and SouthernBlacks that at your ages you have found something (ag) that really "turns you on" as we used to say. Many folks are not that lucky until much later in life, maybe never.

When you find something that turns you on you have to do it. Regardless of obstacles you will find a way to succeed.

However having said that, you may not be able to succeed as fast as you would like, but I sense you both mature enough to understand that. Delaying gratificationn is not in style these days - but it makes success even sweeter when you are able to get there. And you will if you work hard enough and want it bad enough.

But first things first - get an education as is posted above. Doesn't matter what it is in. Would be nice if it was somewhat related to what you want to do eventually. Get the education. It does not get easier later, just harder. And once you get it no one can ever take it away from you. It will open doors.

When you are farming, an accounting class taken earlier in college can be worth its weight in gold even though you really don't want to be an accountant for the rest of your life. So can a physics class or a music appreciation class or a _____ [fill in the blank] class. Bankers are much more likely to finance an operating loan or a land purchase for an individual with a college degree and maybe an accounting class who can prepare a business plan (and likes cows) than they are for a drop out who just likes cows.

Work hard and be patient and work toward being able to do what turns you on and you will be a happy adult.

Good luck.

 

[EAT BEEF]

This may not be worth much,but it's free.
It can be done, but it's a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll.
If you want to be involved in agricultue and be self employed you can make a go of it.If you want to have the reg.cows do them on the side and make your genetics your own.If you chase whats popular the big money boys will just take your money.This is a long term commitment and you still need to make money.If you can rent land thats decent put it to hay and start selling small squares to horse people,Trade cattle and haul cattle,Start building fence for people(fairly cheap to start and very good money if your fast),custom bale hay,trade used equipment,or whatever else your good at.Let one enterprise build off the others,you can use most of the equipment for multiple things.This is how I got this far(not saying I've gotten all that far).If your motivated you can do pretty much what ever you want. Find some other farm boys that aren't as motivated to work for you if you can ,they still know how to work harder than most people.I'm not saying this is the best way but I had the time of my life when I was starting out.My best friends worked for me(sometimes tricky).We worked all day and worked and drank half the night.Then I sold out when I was 27 moved to Oklahoma and bought a couple places,but it was way more fun dreaming and building towards the goal.

Don't let everybody tell you to just do things on the side and let somebody else sign your check,go bust your A$$ and sign their checks.

 

[hgfarmer]

This is all really good advise. Im 21 and in college as well. Def. stay in school. I, like you, wish I could just spend my days farming and make enough money to live the way I have been. But, It just wont happen. I plan on following my dreams career wise, and let everything else fall into place at it comes along. Stake your place in in this world as a college graduate, saty out of debt, live comfortably, then start putting time, money and effort into building a respctable farming opperation. This is my plan, hopefully it will work out..... what are you studying?

 

[grannysoo]

Lots of good advice above, so only 2 points from me.

1. Finish your education and get that piece of paper.
2. Stay out of debt as much as possible.

Good luck!

 

[SFFarms]

I want to thank everyone for the great advice so far, this may not mean much but this advice is something that can help me alot.

I want to say i plan to stay in school and earn my degree. For you who asked im studying Criminal Justice and public service, im was looking toward a career as a Game Warden/ Department Natural resources so i would be around wildlife and also make a pretty good salary. And i have a pretty good shot of obtaining a job in that field.
The past spring i spent about 3 days straight 12 hour days cutting hay 45 acres of hay and another 25 acres. I say there is something i love waking up at 6:00 am and watching the son rise as the cool dew comes off the hay, and the night as the sun falls and the cool brezzes swep in and the smell of fresh cut hay.

I would love to make a living rasing cattle but many you have said it's hard to start at the bottom i have a good start and im a try stay with what i got.

My father and grandfather have always taught me this saying that is very simple but i think the rest of my people my age need to learn.

"Nothing is given to you in life, you have to work for something to earn something"

 

[backhoeboogie]

I want to thank everyone for the great advice so far, this may not mean much but this advice is something that can help me alot.

SFFarms, I should be thanking you. It is good to read the words of young folks with great attitudes. I've been in this thread a couple of times reading.

As far as watching that sun come up in the morning, many folks do that every day and enjoy it. You don't have to be farming to do that. I enjoy it more in the summer over a cup of coffee.

 

[hrbelgians]

If you enjoy it give it a go while maintaining a full time job. My friends go to the lake, ride motorcycles, play golf. I work on my little ranch. Its like having your own business without the stress of losing your house. I really enjoy working for myself without the stress. Its good exercise and at the end of the day you know you've accomplished something for yourself. Its just not the same as working for someone else and getting a pat on the back. If you do this it will be a reflection on you. There is no one else to blame for any short comings except bad luck and mother nature. Have fun whatever you decide to do. :nod:

Walt

Walt,
I think that is very nicely put! I am in this situation as well and love the evenings after work!!

 

[cre10]

I am 23 and a partner with my dad. Most all of our land and equipment is paid for. The machinery is all brand new besides the tractors. We run around 100 head. With nearly everything paid for and not having to buy into the family ranch there is no way I can make a living strictly ranching. I will receive my business management degree in December and will have a regular job with ranching as my secondary job. I hope to save money and expand the ranch so that maybe when I am 40 I can strictly ranch. I know that ranching full time is not possible but I am shooting to be able to retire early and ranch full time. Having a job for health insurance 401k etc. is very important as health insurance alone can really be costly if you aren't working for a good employer. I could make more money having my own company but that extra money would be diminished by having to pay for my own health insurance. Fringe benefits make a big difference. I can deal with working for someone else and ranching secondary knowing that if I plan ahead I will be able to retire early and dedicate myself to the ranch.