Face Flies

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SebagoLakeRanch":2nvdpmju said:
You're likely treating the symptom, not the problem, thistles are likely from over-grazing.
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NO it has nothing to do wtih grazing..it was just a very wet winter and spring here and everyone has them. They look almost like a cash crop everywhere you look.
 
Thistles are like any other weed. The seed bank is there and if they can get a good start before something chokes them out they'll go nuts. This year up here it's Queen Anns Lace. Most of the hayfields have grown up with them till it's a solid white carpet. They just got there chance after the hay was cut and with no rain the grass didn;t get started growing again, but the QAL sure did.
 
dun":16pdew7x said:
Thistles are like any other weed. The seed bank is there and if they can get a good start before something chokes them out they'll go nuts. This year up here it's Queen Anns Lace. Most of the hayfields have grown up with them till it's a solid white carpet. They just got there chance after the hay was cut and with no rain the grass didn;t get started growing again, but the QAL sure did.
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I know what ya mean I have a few fields that I didn't spray this yr and man am I regretting that, the QAL is abundant
I have several thistles this yr and it has nothing to do with the grazing
 
Angus Cowman":3fu3fe3r said:
dun":3fu3fe3r said:
Thistles are like any other weed. The seed bank is there and if they can get a good start before something chokes them out they'll go nuts. This year up here it's Queen Anns Lace. Most of the hayfields have grown up with them till it's a solid white carpet. They just got there chance after the hay was cut and with no rain the grass didn;t get started growing again, but the QAL sure did.
Click to expand...
I know what ya mean I have a few fields that I didn't spray this yr and man am I regretting that, the QAL is abundant
I have several thistles this yr and it has nothing to do with the grazing
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We have only a few in spots. The neighbors place is just beautiful with them. So think you would have thought he planted them. But his first cutting was pretty white too. I guess that's what comes from cutting hay every year and never fertilizing or spraying.
 
I'm thinking about ordering the FlyKillerKover but really don't expect stuff like this to need maintenance in the second or third here. Good that they are standing by their product and replacing stuff for free. I wonder if they have changed the stuff so as not to require aluminized paint. I don't mind pressure washing every year but then I have to get a pressure washer :)

I need a new mineral feeder anyway so I was thinking of getting the one they have there with the Fly Killer Kover for $298.

I'd like to get one of the ones that they rub their backs on but there is no one place I can put it since I am rotational grazing.
 
It's working very good since I pressure washed the back side of the cover. You can always go to a car wash if you don't want to buy one, that's what they recommended. I didn't use any allumnized paint. I sprayed Carb cleaner in the reservoir, I think it made some of the paint peel, don't do that.

Both groups have hardly any face flies when I checked yesterday and today. Unfortunately it doesn't do anything for the horn flies on the back. I made a setup to hold a backrubber out of 2" pipe a couple year ago, but it broke where they threaded the pipe for me, ruined the galvanization and rusted through the pipe. It's a frame that you can pull with the ATV, tied the mineral feeder to the back. You can pull it by hand if you want a workout. Next time I'd use the fittings they have in FarmTek that slip over conduit and lock on with set screws. Most of the cows I checked tonight had virtually no face flies, most had hardly any horn flies. The few that did have horn flies had quite a few.

I have also hung a backrubber between two T-Posts before. My cows are essentially mob grazing on a daily move now, everything needs to be very portable.

If you call the phone number on their website, I think it is their home phone. You are going to talk directly with the guy who designed it, he'll answer any questions.
 
canoetrpr":2bujql0l said:
I'd like to get one of the ones that they rub their backs on but there is no one place I can put it since I am rotational grazing.
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We rotatioanl graze also. We water from either portable tanks or concrete in the ground wateres. We have set up areas around each tank/waterer that the cows have to enter to drink. A 4 foot opening with a fly wipe/mop hanging in it works great.
 
dun":14tihqeb said:
canoetrpr":14tihqeb said:
I'd like to get one of the ones that they rub their backs on but there is no one place I can put it since I am rotational grazing.
Click to expand...
We rotatioanl graze also. We water from either portable tanks or concrete in the ground wateres. We have set up areas around each tank/waterer that the cows have to enter to drink. A 4 foot opening with a fly wipe/mop hanging in it works great.
Click to expand...

This is a tough year for flies and thistles. The rubs strung across a lane to the waterer is working well, just have to keep it doused well. For thistles the best thing I've found is to mow right after rotating the cows out of a paddock. My cattle eat everything but the thistle so its standing tall and about to flower/seed. If you can get it then it can be kept under control - but not eliminated since my neighbor seems to be running a thistle seed farm along with his horses.

I'm still looking for burlap bags to hang from my rubs but for now the flypps they sell are working ok on their sides. The cows seem to know that the rub helps and come over and do a little dance under it to get more on where needed. jmho. Jim
 
SRBeef":tm666o0z said:
This is a tough year for flies and thistles. The rubs strung across a lane to the waterer is working well, just have to keep it doused well. For thistles the best thing I've found is to mow right after rotating the cows out of a paddock.
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The negative about just clipping without spot treating is they will flower again but very close to the ground and may be hidden by the grass.
 
We use a fdifferent weedwiper that doesn;t cost multiple thousands of dollars
 
Ok I think I am convinced on a Fly Killer Kover. I need a new mineral feeder anyway so I am just going to get the one from them.

The next thing you guys had me thinking of is their backs. I don't have a good spot where they go through everyday with rotational grazing. My brilliant wife suggested why we would not just go out and spray them with a spray bottle while we visit them. With 4 cows, 1 bull and 4 calves, we go out and touch practically every one of them every day or every other day anyway. This is what the horse people do around here. Of course it won't make sense if you have a large herd but with 4 cows, growing to at most 8 - I think this is an economical solution.

Unless anyone can let me know why it would not work? Any particular insecticide that would or would not work for this?
 
If you can mess with them that closely why not just pour them once a month with soething like Ultraboss. Dribble a bit over their poll and the rest down their back and it will take care (mostly) of all the flys.
 
canoetrpr":s6v9ubss said:
Ok I think I am convinced on a Fly Killer Kover. I need a new mineral feeder anyway so I am just going to get the one from them.

The next thing you guys had me thinking of is their backs. I don't have a good spot where they go through everyday with rotational grazing. My brilliant wife suggested why we would not just go out and spray them with a spray bottle while we visit them. With 4 cows, 1 bull and 4 calves, we go out and touch practically every one of them every day or every other day anyway. This is what the horse people do around here. Of course it won't make sense if you have a large herd but with 4 cows, growing to at most 8 - I think this is an economical solution.

Unless anyone can let me know why it would not work? Any particular insecticide that would or would not work for this?
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For horn flies I use a cheap aluminum framed pistol grip syringe (pro shot II) without a needle to squirt Cylence pour-on on their backs. Set it for 4cc and give 1,2 or 3 squirts as needed by weight. Your weight guess doesn't seem to be terribly critical. Know of a guy who uses a small pump up sprayer and only guesses the amount applied. The syringe works well. I suppose for a few head of gentle cattle a disposable syringe could be used. A treatment seems to last 4-6 weeks.

BTW-would not advise buying the plastic handle pistol grip syringe. If you squeeze too hard you can break it. Don't ask me how I know this. Also-why did they change to the aluminum frame and yet continue to build the plastic? Buyer beware!
 
Did some more research and chatted with my wife a bit. She's a bit concerned about the impact of the insecticides and wonders whether or not we should use something natural.

I don't claim that my cows are organic. They are grass fed and I plan to grass finish them. I don't use growth hormones or un-necessary antibiotics. However, I do vaccinate as I think it is the sensible thing to do. If one of my animals gets sick I will use antibiotics.

So I am not against using an insecticide if a natural solution truly does not work. I found some products that contained pyrethrin which I believe is a natural product. Some that horse stores carry are a mix of pyrethrin and permethrin - I believe the latter is synthetic. I talked to an organic beef guy here and he says he makes his own mix of citronella, water, mineral oil and vinegar.

I'm open minded and appreciate any and all opinions - despite your point of view on this.
 
Some practices make sense, some are just plain silly!

[edit]
What I mean by that is some of the organic rules, reasons I'm not organic. You aren't supposed to use a pressure treated fence post, which I only use for corners, bends and braces. However, if I want to build a ton of fence, then get certified, existing fence is grandfathered.
 
Ladies and gentlemen, I think I must come up with plan B.

I thought my cows were tame and they do stand there and let me scratch them. Each gets scratched once a day. I thought they would stand their and let me spray on some stuff on them with a spray bottle.

They saw me and then they saw the spray bottle and said - "something isn't right with this picture". Only one would stand around for me to spray. The others take off every time they hear the spray.

I should have guessed this. I've learned that cows like their routine. I imagine if I had brought out a bucket of grain and sprayed them while they were eating they might have been fine with it and gotten used to it.

Anyway, I'm trying to think up an alternate idea. I think the Fly Killer Kover can do a good job on the face but I still need something for the back. One idea is that I can get coverage in 3 out of 5 paddocks by installing two basic cattle rubs (http://www.phwhite.com/). Another interesting product I saw is this cattle oiler stand that can be moved with a bucket. http://www.bhfmfg.com/item24.htm. I typically use my tractor anyway for the mineral feeder when I am moving them between pastures.

If I was setting up my rotational grazing system now I would have them coming to one or two central spots for water. I guess hindsight is 20/20.
 
Thank you for that I haven't heard of it before.

I do have a question though. I find with thistles if you poison them, you just fast track them dying and sending out seeds?
 

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